[william77stout]

Hey, I just signed up hear so I can get in with the forum thats spearheading the whole SA-8 issue. I have deep respect for the people fighting on all the different grounds (what should be done, what is need, whats fair...).

I've posted some thoughts over at Techpb.com and since they aren't discussing much I decided to come here since most of the info is coming here anyways (not to mention the sites awesome. Anyways I have several thoughts and questions.

First what is the Definition for a Paintball gun?...a real gun? Then what do they do differently that separates them? Next at what point does something change from what it was to something different ( I know I'll explain). Ok, So at what point of destruction/ modification is a Tippmann 98 still a Tippmann 98? or An Angel an Angel? Non paintball related when is a boat no longer a boat? Say you take a hand gun like a Glock and pull all the internals out and stick new internals in so its now basically a squirt-gun with a Glock shroud; Is this still a gun?

I believe the issue that has been raised for SA-8 has deep ramifications to paintball that could lead the sport into several new directions and its important to discuss every aspect. I personally believe the issue needs more opinions. I believe it would be nice to get a lawyers perspective on this too (multiple if we can find them). I've considered talking with my law professor to maybe do a case study as it related directly to what we are discussing in class.

Also, I especially liked scrounger's comments (I can't get it to qoute) as he's a law enforcement officer and would have more knowledge in one area over other. I would also like to know a little bit more If I could. Since I can't quote I'll paraphrase you have a X7 that you can't use for law enforcement purposes, even though its the same as your law enforcement brand launcher in almost the same aspects. If (which I don't know) they let you have your personal cell phone with you while on the job don't they regulate when you can and can't use it? I'm trying to suggest that it depends on your departments rules.

I've heard of police station buying regular paintball guns and they just buy pepperballs for them and severl officers have their own setup which they are allowed to use if the situation should require it (ie riot/ crowd dispersal). If your departments rules said you could use your own then it would be your choice, but they chose to only use the departments. If I'm wrong about any of this just let me know, but the only reason you would get in trouble is because they said you would which would make the point good under your circumstances, but not necessarily everyone elses. Again I wish only to look at all sides of the argument hence my questions and suggestions above.

To quote myself "Tiberius is trying to deal with a weird situation to say the least. The Tac8 and the SA8 are partically the same in quality and extremely similar in design. The real reason the Tac8 cost $180 (actionvillage) is because paintball economics say a pistol can sell for $200. If everyone was only willing to pay $150 they would make a gun they can sell for $150. Its the same across the board for all guns and equipment. The top of the line 2010 guns like the ego are only going for that high of a price because thats what someone is willing to pay for them."

If anyone would like to disagree thats fine, but please look at an economic standpoint or read an economic book at this is just what it will tell you (very likely it will use oil as an example of a good). I will state for the record I have bought one of these SA-8 and would be willing once turned under 300FPS chronoed and safe to have anyone play against me with it. I would prefer to make it safer (like my G3 IQ I want it to be safer it goes off way to easily), but this gun doesn't have the adjustable safety valve, But from cool0 he's found a solution to remedy this. I will mention this is not the first paintball shooting gun that hasn't had a releif valve. Also I would be completely willing to pay for a safety modification for this marker that can be recognized like the one above. IE If it truely is unsafe and tiberius/ field owners don't want it used it can be seen without pulling it all apart. It doesn't look quite as good in my opinion, but I also payed $100 less.

I'm willing to see what ?Eric? from Tiberius has to say when he gets back, but the safety release was both rushed and needed. Obviously he is gone right now so he didn't get a chance to fully look over how this situation can be resolved as he didn't have so much time, but since these guns are out there they need to make sure people are safe. I believe they think there not safe because they come out of the box at like 400FPS. If I wasn't able to play with safety almost completely out of my mind I would play with it or any other gun/ equipment (ie shoe laces undone or mask cracked). Obviously I want a safe remedy thats fair for all parties Tiberius, players who bought these, and players who these could be used against.

I personally don't like Milsim rifles/ pistols that look real. The public doesn't totally know about paintball. I like the fact that markers don't look like guns and like the SA-8 (mine is orange)orange shroud which on any other gun signifies "fake" or "replica" calms the public when they see them. I was at a local field when the police came because a lady though someone was hunting in a public place (he had a A5 with a stock and the place is a local public land area with the city's permissions to play paintball there). Obviously this is long and I do have my own opinions, but want more info on everything, so post if you have an idea or thought. Scrounger if you read this and can get back to me I'd appreciate it.