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Old 10-04-2012, 05:44 PM   #65 (permalink)
la la la la revolution
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: MN

I hope this is what it seems. A mass-produced, cheap, single-trigger pneumatic Ion would be a good thing. Do they still make 'cocker threaded breeches?

Originally Posted by Autocockerfan View Post
Here is my little snip. If in fact it is only the standard ion, or so, with the mech setup; I have lost even more resect for SP. Copycat jerks. Just like KEE and Tippman using the AGD Automag design. Again, copycat jerks. Get your own design.
Huh? Are you referring to the Mini/Axe and Phenom and TPX?

AGD's design was for a sear-controlled blow-forward with the addition of an integrated shut-off valve for filling the dump chamber. When at rest, the bolt is under constant air pressure and is only restrained by the sear. Pulling the trigger releases the sear and simultaneously cuts off flow of air into the dump chamber for efficiency. The regulator is integrated into the valve assembly.

The Mini/Axe/TM-7/TM-15 design doesn't have a sear, and doesn't have a trigger-controlled shut-off valve. The dump chamber is organized differently. The regulator is separated from the "valve" (actually a poppet unlike AGD) by the dump chamber. Other than the bolt moving forward when the gun is fired and returned by a spring, it really has nothing in common with the AGD design.

The Tippmann TPX and phenoms lack a sear, and as far as I can tell (I regret that I haven't been able to take one apart) there isn't an AGD-style dump chamber. Air doesn't push the bolt forward until the trigger is pulled, so there's no need for a sear. Like AGD, a spring does return the bolt.

You didn't mention the Tiberius pistols, but they come much closer to the AGD design. There's a dump chamber constantly pushing the bolt forward with only a sear to restraining it. There is no trigger-controlled valve to keep air from filling the dump chamber; instead there is a restriction that keeps the air supply from leaking into the dump chamber too fast. This allows a spring to reset the bolt (faster flow would keep the bolt from resetting). The sear is not directly actuated by the trigger; it's a lot like an actual firearm in this way.

The pneumatic Ion (if that's what this goofily-named-yet-still-appealing thing is) has even less in common with AGD's design, except for a bolt that opens a dump chamber after moving forward past a certain point. There's no sear, and the bolt shuts off airflow into the dump chamber when firing, not the trigger. The mechanics that cause the bolt to move forward and reset are completely different, and the reg is clear across the gun. There are other guns it's similar to, but not made by AGD.

I've haven't paid much attention to Paintball the last couple of years, so maybe I've just missed some products that actually copy AGD, but AFAIK only Tiberius pistols come close, and they have some novel features that (IMO) are superior to the AGD design.

Edit: Holy crap, that's a lot of text. Sorry. Guess I needed to geek out on paintball gun mechanics.

Last edited by MondoMor; 10-04-2012 at 05:54 PM.
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