Thread: "rain cover"
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:02 AM   #171 (permalink)
DocsMachine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justus View Post
Doc, I honestly mean no disrespect, but you're still comprehending that case completely wrong.
-It's not an issue of having to comprehend anything. It's an issue of simply knowing what the ATF actually does.

You and I can argue what-ifs and or-whats 'til we're blue in the... keyboard, I guess. Okay, poor analogy. But we have hard data concerning what the ATF themselves actually does.

Quote:
1. Paintball guns are not firearms.
-Agreed. But not at issue here.

Quote:
2. The current statute prohibits the possession of a firearm silencer, specifically defined.
-Also agreed.

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There is no statute prohibiting the use or possession of a paintball gun silencer.
-Again, agreed.

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3. Without a statute specifically prohibiting its possession, a paintball gun silencer is no more illegal than a car muffler.
-Here's where you're having a problem. There's also no law that specifically allows a paintball silencer.

And since, as far as the ATF is concerned, there's no functional difference between a paintball silencer and a firearms silencer, apart from some currently still extremely murky regulations of "intent", there is still no way to own a paintball silencer without also risking possessing a firearms silencer.

Again, Crooker "suggested" that that part of the law be changed, but it has not yet been changed.

And we know that the ATF does consider paintball silencer to also be equivalent to firearms silencers- the BOA raid, the more recent account of the "welded" silencer becoming illegal once removed from the body of the paintball gun, etc.

Quote:
4. The Government attempted to use... [snipped]
-Again, I'm not a lawyer, but my interpretation is a slightly different. I read it as the court found the law was too vague, as written, to charge with intent, and suggested that it be clarified.

Essentially, you're reading the finding as being a blanket 'okay' to own a paintball silencer, as long as you never try to fit it to a firearm, and I don't agree with that. It remains my opinion that until the actual law has been changed, or the ATF themselves issues an official statement, the ATF is still going to consider even a paintball silencer as illegal.

And considering the risks- even if you win, you'll have to spend tens of thousands defending yourself- at the moment we need to wait until- and if- we get that statement or get the law changed.

Quote:
5. This analysis is coming from someone who can't say the same thing as you did, quoted above. And no, I'm not a TV actor. And none of what I post on a paintball forum is to be construed as any form of legal advice.
-Mine neither.

But as above, the safest route is to wait. If we're lucky, JCurt will hear back with an unambiguous statement from the ATF. It'd be nice if it were unambiguously "they're okay, knock yourselves out", but it'll probably be unambiguously "no, we still consider them illegal until a post-Crooker amendment to the law can be drafted and ratified".

Another bit worth mentioning: Anyone hear of Israel Keyes? A serial killer that lived up here recently, was nabbed in Texas, just killed himself in jail? He had "caches" of weapons and equipment stashed around the US, one of them was shown in the paper the other day.

See the thing at the bottom? Yep, a homebrew PVC silencer.

Doc.
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