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Capt. G0DZILLA · 05-20-2008, 05:15 PM

This was my letter to Fledgling, unedited and complete, read on.

I was part of the Red Mars game this weekend

and I cant begin to tell you how disappointed my entire team was with the game, the setting, the services (the lack of services) and the overall experience. Where should I start, I guess I should start with the game its self.

It was rumored that the bunker placement was done by a team of paintball players who I think were called the "Intimidators"? Doesn't matter, the point is that the field was unbalanced the blue team had more bunker placement that allowed them to have a hugely more defensive position then red. It was plane to see that the blue had heavily fortified setups while the red had to contend with large open expanses that had few if any bunkers to aid in forward movement or defensive tactics.

The Blue base was close to many important positions while red had
to move 1000s of feet just to get to a bunker. Blue also had the town
closer as well as many large trees to take cover in making it almost
impossible to gain any ground, and sure red could have laid down and stayed
low if it weren't for the immense amount of cow dung on the main field and
the almost completely cactus covered land to the west.

There was a bottle neck at the end of the cactus field near blue base but again it was fortified and had a bunker at the opening (unfair)

. I would also like to comment on the stinking cow carcass laying near the rivine

. It reeked of rotting flesh, was intense and offensive.

It was rumored that the team that set up the field was in fact on blue, and by the way the field was so one sided I would believe this rumor to be true.

Furthermore if blue was supposed to be the invading force then how is it that they were better fortified? It doesn’t even work for the "scenario" as a complete story.
The game was pointless; it was overly complex but ended up terribly simplified
with an every men for himself situation, no leadership from the red general
(mother). It was obvious by listening to the radio that blue had good
leadership that was told by blues constant success.

But the game play was awful; because it was blue pushing forward and then red pushing blue back and wash, rinse, repeat. There were no objectives, for instance in a game like "hold the fort" you have players trying to hold the fort for as long as possible, a referee holds a stopwatch in each hand, one for each team. As each team holds the fort the watch is ticking for that team and at the end of the game you see who held the fort longest.

The reason for a game like that is to draw both teams in full force to a single point because otherwise you end up with a chaotic turkey shoot like the games this weekend. If I were to let my suspicions lead me I would think that "Fledgling" would almost want this type of chaos just to ensure a large quantity of paint sales.

This leads me to the night game, I thought there would be fireworks,
flares and special effects that would make the game playable and interesting
but no nothing really happening there. I don't know if you've ever tried to
hit a target with a paintball gun in total darkness but its a complete waste
of paint and energy not to mention how dangerous it is.

You almost had a dead player this weekend, as we moved north through the cactus field toward the blue base a young man in a ghille suit accidentally rolled into the rivine, if it weren’t for

who is part of my team, "Team Hornytoad" that young fellow would have surely drowned.
He was only 5'6" and he could not touch bottom, as he unsuccessively attempted to tread water he was slipping under the surface when

reached in and saved his life.

Those boundaries should have been much smaller for a game being played at night with 10' deep bodies of water. And I dont know if you understand what
happens when a ghille gets wet but it takes on water like a sponge and the
player goes from 165lbs to 210lbs instantly. I would suggest that you find a
more appropriate field for this activity as size of field is not as important as the playability.

There is a reason why that field is no longer used for paintball and its because it is too filthy and dangerous and it failed.

The parking/campsite was anarchy,

large vehicles barely slipping by
tents and people because there was no direction as to where people parked
and where they made camp.

As I lay in my tent Friday night I was terrified by the giant RVs, trucks and trailers that continuously drove within feet of me inside.
Parking and camping DONT mix, the parking and camping should be separate and there should be a LIGHTS OUT so people can sleep without the loud drinking, generators, heaters and vehicles that went on until the wee
hours, this is an intense sport and players need good rest.

The people serving the food were nice but lacking hygiene and quite frankly I was not comfortable receiving food from them as the reeked of body odor and wore filthy clothes.

We were told that we could not bring our own compressor and the setup Fledgling had did not supply anything over 2500 psi on the HPA
until the 2nd day.

Water should be free because it is the most basic and necessary thing to insure against heat stroke and dehydration, a filthy hose from a well is just not good enough. Even military forces in places like Vietnam had better services i.e. simple showers et' cetera.

If at the very least the porta potties should have had bottles of hand sanitizer inside, I know these exist and this is a corner you just cant cut.

Upon registering my team the price of the field fee suddenly went up to 325.00 instead of the advertised price of 250.00 until I pointed out that this is a TEAM registration and argued my case finally settling on 250.00 is that a bait and switch or a convenient mistake?

In conclusion I believe I have mentioned everything that I can say was wrong
with your "game" but I am certain that I am missing something. But I think
I’ve made my point. I am kindly asking for my team’s money back, we did not
feel that we could participate in the “games” and many times we just sat out
and we just couldn’t play due to the excess of problems and lack of
fairness.

Regards,
Chris Rush
(Capt. Godzilla; Team Hornytoad)

I feel that my letter was constructive and factual to the best of my recollection. I did not insult, berate or denigrate Fledgling, just the facts.
Then I received this incredible letter from "hangernaid" and I am SHOCKED!

Sorry that you had such a dissappointing experience. But after reading your email it is pretty obvious that you do not do any research, do not listen to safety briefings, and have NO idea of what was going on the entire time.

I've been a member of the Colorado paintball community since 2001, and I guess our paths have never crossed. Not knowing who you are, I forwarded your email to about 15 team captains. The first reply came in said that it sounds like you play at PBA (because you addressed it to Rob), that you are a first timer, and the other comments I will not post because they go down hill from there.

First, my name is James Helton, aka Hangernaid, and I am the producer. The should have been EASY to figure out, you missed the obvious from your opening.

Second, if you had read the web site you would have known that the field was primitive camping. And in Viet Nam, there were showers, sometimes, but why did you compare the field in Agate to Viet Nam for sanatition? There is something called being prepared, do you expect someone to wipe your backside too? BTW, I am a former AeroScout that served with 1/9 Cav and with 7/17 Cav, 1st Cav Div. I do not ever remember anyone whining quite like you do when I was in that Army.

Third, before the night game we marked the water areas with Red Glow sticks and caution tape. That is industry standard and as required by the insurance. And it was covered in the Night briefing, that is why we do a night briefing. Did you not attend the night briefing? Why am I just now hearing about it? If the kid fell in the water, it should have been reported ASAP, but that would require a modicum of intelligence and a little common sense.

Fourth, Mother worked with those who would work with her. There was a lot of good role playing going on. We can set the stage, but we cannot open your mind.

Fifth, of all of the feedback I've heard, yours in the only negative one that has come in. There is an old rule in putting on paintball games, you will always get 10% of the players to complain. Right now we are at less than 1/4 of one percent. To translate that for you, 1 complaint in 400 players is 1/4 of 1 percent. So I guess we did OK.

Sixth, Mother and Wedge chose their sides. I gave Mother her choice. She was the Producer for MXS (Mackz Xtreme Sportz), and is a ledgend. If you were to talk to experienced scenario players about Mother in the manner you did, I think many would set you straight. Ask Flip (10th Mountain), or Riverrat (Badger Bn), Monsoon (Renegades), Professor (MagDawgs), or Preacher (Evil, Inc) just to name a few who have played scenario around the country. BTW, those are nationally known scenario players.

It is easy to be a fat fish in a small pond and only play at your local field. Most of us have played in scenarios from Wayne's World in Ocala, Florida to Knight Owl's games in Spokane, Washington; and from Jungle Island Paintball in Corona, California to EMR and Skirmish in Pennsylvania. Many of us played in all three William Shatner games, and Mother was the producer of the William Shatner Charity games, and I was the writer/photographer from Action Pursuit Games Magazine that covered the Shatner games. Some of us are playing a scenario in England (Stargate SG-1) this fall, and a scenario in Moscow next spring.

Seventh, several teams helped set up the field, none of them were known as the Intimidators (who are the Intimidators?). It was a mix of SitRepRed and SOGTacSim, both teams played on the Red side. They were the MilSim players. You kinda missed the research on that one.

Eigth, about the pyro, perhaps you did not know that the Fire Department and county sheriff came during the night game, there was a level 2 burn ban and they TOLD us to put out all pyro. Not my choice, next time I have to coordinate with the Fire Dept and clear all pyro with them. Again, you are quite uninformed as to what happened.

Ninth, The team pre-reg is $225 for teams of 5, or to put it another way, teams of 5 or more players are $45 per player). BUT THAT IS PRE-REG ONLY. Pre-reg stands for PRE-REGISTRATION, a discount for registering early so we can estimate how much of everything we need to bring. Pre-Reg ends 10 days BEFORE the game. It was not bait and switch, it was you not reading the info that is clearly posted. We really try to idoit proof the web site, but we are not 100% sucessful. You failed to read it, and then complain because you do not know what is going on. Everyone else got it right.

Tenth, the wind, exactly what do you want me to DO about the wind? It always blows in Colorado. We would have the teams switch sides, but usually the teams have hidden props thay want to keep, and for us to switch sides would make them dig out all of their stashed props and move them. Perhaps you should stick to indoor paintball.

You have no concept about missions, scenario, or even what went on. Have you ever play a scenario? You should go to a game produced by Black Cat, Viper, Wayne Dollack, Knight Owl, or any of the better producers. The military games such as D-Day are NOT scenarios, they are theme based big games. Nothing against D-Day, I was the Allied General for 7 years before I retired and tured it over to Psycho, the Fledgling Game Coordinator. I enjoy D-Day because I get to shoot lots of Germans, but it is not scenario.

I DO listen to criticism, and I read all emails. I forwarded your email to the rest of the staff, but it is difficult to take you seriously when you do not know what you are talking about. I've never known anyone to be so worng on so many items. It is as if you intentionally are stupid, because everything from the prices for registration to the field sanintation, to the night game and staying out of the water, to who the Generals are was ALL posted on the web site, covered in the briefing, and I cannot imagine how any one person could get so many things wrong. Fledgling competes in the free market, there are other games you can go to, and as I stated above, I suggest that you DO go to other games.

BTW, about the money, after paying the land owner, the refs, the porta-pottys, the Air and CO2 contractor, the insurance, buying props, patches, trophies, gas and diesel to get there and back, and about a hundred other expenses, we do not make much money. I am a truck driver, and I make about $1200 a week driving a truck. I make more money driving than I do producing a paintball game. It never was about the money, and I find it a bit repulsive that so many players focus on money. We are the least expensive of the major producers, and we deliver a higher quality game. We do it because the Colorado players want us there. We charge the same price for paint that you pay at PBA, and charging $65 for walk-ons and that including all event air, that is very little more than you would pay for 2 days at a local field. FOR A 26 hour scenario! With give-aways, trophies, and it is a place where the scenario community comes together for a one weekend event, much unlike you weekend rec ball you might pay for.

Are you the player we ejected Saturday night? Or do you work for a different paintball field that is trying to damage Fledgling because you cannot compete in the free market system. I've seen that before, but not in Colorado. I wonder what is really chapping your backside. It would not surprise me if several of the team captains respond to your email, although the reason I forwarded your email to them was to find out who you are.

Jim

I CANNOT BELIEVE THE INSULTS AND DISRESPECT FROM THIS "PRODUCER"!!!

I will not go back to any of their games and I would suggest that no one else does either, they are just a bunch of hayseeds who have no idea what they are doing. RED MARS is a rip off and if you want a good scenerio game look for ones at the AIR FORCE ACADEMY or somewhere else but DO NOT GO TO ANY FLEDGLING SCENARIOS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE PLAYERS OR THEIR SAFETY AND THEY ONLY SEEK TO MAKE A QUICK BUCK!
Fledgling could be the death of good gaming because so many people will never try a scenario again because of this first experience!

05-20-2008, 05:15 PM	#12 (permalink)
Capt. G0DZILLA Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Posts: 8	RED MARS My Experiance and reply from "hangernaid". This was my letter to Fledgling, unedited and complete, read on. I was part of the Red Mars game this weekend and I cant begin to tell you how disappointed my entire team was with the game, the setting, the services (the lack of services) and the overall experience. Where should I start, I guess I should start with the game its self. It was rumored that the bunker placement was done by a team of paintball players who I think were called the "Intimidators"? Doesn't matter, the point is that the field was unbalanced the blue team had more bunker placement that allowed them to have a hugely more defensive position then red. It was plane to see that the blue had heavily fortified setups while the red had to contend with large open expanses that had few if any bunkers to aid in forward movement or defensive tactics. The Blue base was close to many important positions while red had to move 1000s of feet just to get to a bunker. Blue also had the town closer as well as many large trees to take cover in making it almost impossible to gain any ground, and sure red could have laid down and stayed low if it weren't for the immense amount of cow dung on the main field and the almost completely cactus covered land to the west. There was a bottle neck at the end of the cactus field near blue base but again it was fortified and had a bunker at the opening (unfair). I would also like to comment on the stinking cow carcass laying near the rivine . It reeked of rotting flesh, was intense and offensive. It was rumored that the team that set up the field was in fact on blue, and by the way the field was so one sided I would believe this rumor to be true. Furthermore if blue was supposed to be the invading force then how is it that they were better fortified? It doesn’t even work for the "scenario" as a complete story. The game was pointless; it was overly complex but ended up terribly simplified with an every men for himself situation, no leadership from the red general (mother). It was obvious by listening to the radio that blue had good leadership that was told by blues constant success. But the game play was awful; because it was blue pushing forward and then red pushing blue back and wash, rinse, repeat. There were no objectives, for instance in a game like "hold the fort" you have players trying to hold the fort for as long as possible, a referee holds a stopwatch in each hand, one for each team. As each team holds the fort the watch is ticking for that team and at the end of the game you see who held the fort longest. The reason for a game like that is to draw both teams in full force to a single point because otherwise you end up with a chaotic turkey shoot like the games this weekend. If I were to let my suspicions lead me I would think that "Fledgling" would almost want this type of chaos just to ensure a large quantity of paint sales. This leads me to the night game, I thought there would be fireworks, flares and special effects that would make the game playable and interesting but no nothing really happening there. I don't know if you've ever tried to hit a target with a paintball gun in total darkness but its a complete waste of paint and energy not to mention how dangerous it is. You almost had a dead player this weekend, as we moved north through the cactus field toward the blue base a young man in a ghille suit accidentally rolled into the rivine, if it weren’t for who is part of my team, "Team Hornytoad" that young fellow would have surely drowned. He was only 5'6" and he could not touch bottom, as he unsuccessively attempted to tread water he was slipping under the surface when reached in and saved his life. Those boundaries should have been much smaller for a game being played at night with 10' deep bodies of water. And I dont know if you understand what happens when a ghille gets wet but it takes on water like a sponge and the player goes from 165lbs to 210lbs instantly. I would suggest that you find a more appropriate field for this activity as size of field is not as important as the playability. There is a reason why that field is no longer used for paintball and its because it is too filthy and dangerous and it failed. The parking/campsite was anarchy, large vehicles barely slipping by tents and people because there was no direction as to where people parked and where they made camp. As I lay in my tent Friday night I was terrified by the giant RVs, trucks and trailers that continuously drove within feet of me inside. Parking and camping DONT mix, the parking and camping should be separate and there should be a LIGHTS OUT so people can sleep without the loud drinking, generators, heaters and vehicles that went on until the wee hours, this is an intense sport and players need good rest. The people serving the food were nice but lacking hygiene and quite frankly I was not comfortable receiving food from them as the reeked of body odor and wore filthy clothes. We were told that we could not bring our own compressor and the setup Fledgling had did not supply anything over 2500 psi on the HPA until the 2nd day. Water should be free because it is the most basic and necessary thing to insure against heat stroke and dehydration, a filthy hose from a well is just not good enough. Even military forces in places like Vietnam had better services i.e. simple showers et' cetera. If at the very least the porta potties should have had bottles of hand sanitizer inside, I know these exist and this is a corner you just cant cut. Upon registering my team the price of the field fee suddenly went up to 325.00 instead of the advertised price of 250.00 until I pointed out that this is a TEAM registration and argued my case finally settling on 250.00 is that a bait and switch or a convenient mistake? In conclusion I believe I have mentioned everything that I can say was wrong with your "game" but I am certain that I am missing something. But I think I’ve made my point. I am kindly asking for my team’s money back, we did not feel that we could participate in the “games” and many times we just sat out and we just couldn’t play due to the excess of problems and lack of fairness. Regards, Chris Rush (Capt. Godzilla; Team Hornytoad) I feel that my letter was constructive and factual to the best of my recollection. I did not insult, berate or denigrate Fledgling, just the facts. Then I received this incredible letter from "hangernaid" and I am SHOCKED! Sorry that you had such a dissappointing experience. But after reading your email it is pretty obvious that you do not do any research, do not listen to safety briefings, and have NO idea of what was going on the entire time. I've been a member of the Colorado paintball community since 2001, and I guess our paths have never crossed. Not knowing who you are, I forwarded your email to about 15 team captains. The first reply came in said that it sounds like you play at PBA (because you addressed it to Rob), that you are a first timer, and the other comments I will not post because they go down hill from there. First, my name is James Helton, aka Hangernaid, and I am the producer. The should have been EASY to figure out, you missed the obvious from your opening. Second, if you had read the web site you would have known that the field was primitive camping. And in Viet Nam, there were showers, sometimes, but why did you compare the field in Agate to Viet Nam for sanatition? There is something called being prepared, do you expect someone to wipe your backside too? BTW, I am a former AeroScout that served with 1/9 Cav and with 7/17 Cav, 1st Cav Div. I do not ever remember anyone whining quite like you do when I was in that Army. Third, before the night game we marked the water areas with Red Glow sticks and caution tape. That is industry standard and as required by the insurance. And it was covered in the Night briefing, that is why we do a night briefing. Did you not attend the night briefing? Why am I just now hearing about it? If the kid fell in the water, it should have been reported ASAP, but that would require a modicum of intelligence and a little common sense. Fourth, Mother worked with those who would work with her. There was a lot of good role playing going on. We can set the stage, but we cannot open your mind. Fifth, of all of the feedback I've heard, yours in the only negative one that has come in. There is an old rule in putting on paintball games, you will always get 10% of the players to complain. Right now we are at less than 1/4 of one percent. To translate that for you, 1 complaint in 400 players is 1/4 of 1 percent. So I guess we did OK. Sixth, Mother and Wedge chose their sides. I gave Mother her choice. She was the Producer for MXS (Mackz Xtreme Sportz), and is a ledgend. If you were to talk to experienced scenario players about Mother in the manner you did, I think many would set you straight. Ask Flip (10th Mountain), or Riverrat (Badger Bn), Monsoon (Renegades), Professor (MagDawgs), or Preacher (Evil, Inc) just to name a few who have played scenario around the country. BTW, those are nationally known scenario players. It is easy to be a fat fish in a small pond and only play at your local field. Most of us have played in scenarios from Wayne's World in Ocala, Florida to Knight Owl's games in Spokane, Washington; and from Jungle Island Paintball in Corona, California to EMR and Skirmish in Pennsylvania. Many of us played in all three William Shatner games, and Mother was the producer of the William Shatner Charity games, and I was the writer/photographer from Action Pursuit Games Magazine that covered the Shatner games. Some of us are playing a scenario in England (Stargate SG-1) this fall, and a scenario in Moscow next spring. Seventh, several teams helped set up the field, none of them were known as the Intimidators (who are the Intimidators?). It was a mix of SitRepRed and SOGTacSim, both teams played on the Red side. They were the MilSim players. You kinda missed the research on that one. Eigth, about the pyro, perhaps you did not know that the Fire Department and county sheriff came during the night game, there was a level 2 burn ban and they TOLD us to put out all pyro. Not my choice, next time I have to coordinate with the Fire Dept and clear all pyro with them. Again, you are quite uninformed as to what happened. Ninth, The team pre-reg is $225 for teams of 5, or to put it another way, teams of 5 or more players are $45 per player). BUT THAT IS PRE-REG ONLY. Pre-reg stands for PRE-REGISTRATION, a discount for registering early so we can estimate how much of everything we need to bring. Pre-Reg ends 10 days BEFORE the game. It was not bait and switch, it was you not reading the info that is clearly posted. We really try to idoit proof the web site, but we are not 100% sucessful. You failed to read it, and then complain because you do not know what is going on. Everyone else got it right. Tenth, the wind, exactly what do you want me to DO about the wind? It always blows in Colorado. We would have the teams switch sides, but usually the teams have hidden props thay want to keep, and for us to switch sides would make them dig out all of their stashed props and move them. Perhaps you should stick to indoor paintball. You have no concept about missions, scenario, or even what went on. Have you ever play a scenario? You should go to a game produced by Black Cat, Viper, Wayne Dollack, Knight Owl, or any of the better producers. The military games such as D-Day are NOT scenarios, they are theme based big games. Nothing against D-Day, I was the Allied General for 7 years before I retired and tured it over to Psycho, the Fledgling Game Coordinator. I enjoy D-Day because I get to shoot lots of Germans, but it is not scenario. I DO listen to criticism, and I read all emails. I forwarded your email to the rest of the staff, but it is difficult to take you seriously when you do not know what you are talking about. I've never known anyone to be so worng on so many items. It is as if you intentionally are stupid, because everything from the prices for registration to the field sanintation, to the night game and staying out of the water, to who the Generals are was ALL posted on the web site, covered in the briefing, and I cannot imagine how any one person could get so many things wrong. Fledgling competes in the free market, there are other games you can go to, and as I stated above, I suggest that you DO go to other games. BTW, about the money, after paying the land owner, the refs, the porta-pottys, the Air and CO2 contractor, the insurance, buying props, patches, trophies, gas and diesel to get there and back, and about a hundred other expenses, we do not make much money. I am a truck driver, and I make about $1200 a week driving a truck. I make more money driving than I do producing a paintball game. It never was about the money, and I find it a bit repulsive that so many players focus on money. We are the least expensive of the major producers, and we deliver a higher quality game. We do it because the Colorado players want us there. We charge the same price for paint that you pay at PBA, and charging $65 for walk-ons and that including all event air, that is very little more than you would pay for 2 days at a local field. FOR A 26 hour scenario! With give-aways, trophies, and it is a place where the scenario community comes together for a one weekend event, much unlike you weekend rec ball you might pay for. Are you the player we ejected Saturday night? Or do you work for a different paintball field that is trying to damage Fledgling because you cannot compete in the free market system. I've seen that before, but not in Colorado. I wonder what is really chapping your backside. It would not surprise me if several of the team captains respond to your email, although the reason I forwarded your email to them was to find out who you are. Jim I CANNOT BELIEVE THE INSULTS AND DISRESPECT FROM THIS "PRODUCER"!!! I will not go back to any of their games and I would suggest that no one else does either, they are just a bunch of hayseeds who have no idea what they are doing. RED MARS is a rip off and if you want a good scenerio game look for ones at the AIR FORCE ACADEMY or somewhere else but DO NOT GO TO ANY FLEDGLING SCENARIOS BECAUSE THEY DO NOT CARE ABOUT THE PLAYERS OR THEIR SAFETY AND THEY ONLY SEEK TO MAKE A QUICK BUCK! Fledgling could be the death of good gaming because so many people will never try a scenario again because of this first experience!