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Old 02-12-2007, 08:48 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Do they need to?

That's the question I keep coming back to...

Do they need to sell a bazillion guns to be successful? If they're well regarded, and the sales are paying the bills and sending everyone home with a paycheck, do they really need to rule the world?

Cutting the prices cuts the value of the product, and eats away at the good name they've built up over the last 20 years. To compete with cheap potmetal, extruded guns, you have to make a cheap potmetal extruded gun. And who really needs ANOTHER cheap piece of crap marker that will last a single season before tearing itself apart.

AGD will stay away from litigation since they're a relatively small company, so don't get your hopes up for a spyder-Mag or a Pneu-Mag anytime soon. The fear of litigation has already killed R&D on the next evolution of the AGD system. The e-mag (cool as I think it is) was just another bolt on accessory to the core RT valve system, and as such has to be stupidly overpowered and clunky. Who really wants a battery that you can choke a moose with, when the rage is all "I shaved 0.20 ounces off the new DM26X by putting on the ultra tiny grip frame."

I think Mags have their market just like Palmers does. In fact, come to think of it, I hardly own a gun that's not one or the other. I'm pretty sure I don't want either company selling billions of guns either. Look at the loathing that has been cast toward K2 for what they've done to the cocker line to make it more saleable. Selling a pile of product sometimes isn't the best way to be a success.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I think that AGD would potentially benefit from small ads in APG and other magazines like Palmers does, but unfortunately alot of players are deterred from buying a brand new ULE Mag because of the price (same as Palmers). Then if they do spring for it, they go for the Pro Classic because they don't want to spend $450+ on a mech when they know they can get a e-gripped A5 for less than that. I love my Mag and I have had classics all the way to an Emag. All were great and with the addition of new hardware and accessories they are visually appealing as well. With the addition of companies like The Mag Smith, Tunaman, and now Cerberus Innovations making new products you will eventually get more new Mag lovers, but not many. Like everyone else has stated, the problem is not with advertising (although a little wouldn't hurt) it is with the consumer.
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Old 02-12-2007, 03:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
Do they need to?

That's the question I keep coming back to...

Do they need to sell a bazillion guns to be successful? If they're well regarded, and the sales are paying the bills and sending everyone home with a paycheck, do they really need to rule the world?

Cutting the prices cuts the value of the product, and eats away at the good name they've built up over the last 20 years. To compete with cheap potmetal, extruded guns, you have to make a cheap potmetal extruded gun. And who really needs ANOTHER cheap piece of crap marker that will last a single season before tearing itself apart.

AGD will stay away from litigation since they're a relatively small company, so don't get your hopes up for a spyder-Mag or a Pneu-Mag anytime soon. The fear of litigation has already killed R&D on the next evolution of the AGD system. The e-mag (cool as I think it is) was just another bolt on accessory to the core RT valve system, and as such has to be stupidly overpowered and clunky. Who really wants a battery that you can choke a moose with, when the rage is all "I shaved 0.20 ounces off the new DM26X by putting on the ultra tiny grip frame."

I think Mags have their market just like Palmers does. In fact, come to think of it, I hardly own a gun that's not one or the other. I'm pretty sure I don't want either company selling billions of guns either. Look at the loathing that has been cast toward K2 for what they've done to the cocker line to make it more saleable. Selling a pile of product sometimes isn't the best way to be a success.
I agree whole heartedly! AGD is happy with the way things are going right now. Why would they need to be "Better"? Do we really want it to be like it used to be? Everyone at the field having a Mag or a Cocker? The fact that Mags are now lesser known is nice, people talk to you about them now, and before, everyone knew what Mags were. Why pay for expensive marketing, when your selling plenty of units to keep it going and make a few bucks? Like said before, litigation keeps AGD from producing more E-Mags and the same goes for Pneu-Mag frames or guns. Emags never exactly "Flew" off the shelves, they sold decently but not anywhere close to Angel or Timmy numbers. Deadly wind was going to produce a Pnue frame with AGDs cooperation, but the PTP patent put it on hold. So there is nothing wrong with AGD at the moment, no need to change it, or Market it, to up your E-cool points for owning one.....lol

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Old 02-12-2007, 05:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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The Mag is a hard sell when you can pay less and get MORE (read MUCH MORE) with other brands. And no amount of touting “quality” and “best mechanical on the market and can keep up with electronic markers” will sway the average player to pay Mag prices for a marker that does not shoot more paint more accurately than a relatively cheap e-marker which allows other “goodies” with it.

Please don’t take this as slamming the Mag, because it isn’t. But folks need to realize what a Mag is and what it isn’t and what AGD is and what they are not.
And there is a guy with an axe to grind...

Not many share your opinion that you get "MUCH MORE" when you buy something besides an Automag. I agree they are a tough sell in this day and age, but your opinion is a bit jaded.

Perhaps you could expound on your statement that you get "MUCH MORE" for less. Say for instance, the $229 ProClassic vs. you fill in the blank

Base Tippmann 98's are selling for $159 at Action Village now. I look forward to your response.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:27 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Better advertising would be a start, though. If Rufus Dawg can run a full-page ad with their garbage in APG every month I can't imagine AGD can't at least get something in the back.

But design-wise, I think they're where they need to be. They've got an incredible modular mechanical semi which is reknowned for its simplicity and durability, as well as the company standpoint which has maintained its reputability where other companies have fallen to the wayside and started lowering their quality for quantity in the name of quick profit.

I honestly don't see how it could be better for AGD without them abandoning what makes them so great in the first place. They're a niche market just like Palmer's.

And they have a devoted customer in me, so that's gotta count for something.
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Old 02-12-2007, 05:52 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JKR View Post
And there is a guy with an axe to grind...

Not many share your opinion that you get "MUCH MORE" when you buy something besides an Automag. I agree they are a tough sell in this day and age, but your opinion is a bit jaded.

Perhaps you could expound on your statement that you get "MUCH MORE" for less. Say for instance, the $229 ProClassic vs. you fill in the blank

Base Tippmann 98's are selling for $159 at Action Village now. I look forward to your response.
I may indeed have an axe to grind, but that does not invalidate my post. In fact I was saying the same things back when I was a Mag owner AND very active in promoting AGD and Mags.

I was not however talking about the Pro Classic, but the RT Pro and E-Mag. And for a new player there is a big difference between $220 and $159. That is a mask and cheap pod pack. And what really is the advantage of the ProClassic over the 98? You may say “quality” but they both shoot balls, shoot them about the same speed, and with a clean barrel… you get the point.

I would also disagree that “not many” would share my opinion that you get much more when you buy something besides an Automag for the same relative price. You may think so, but sales say otherwise.

Again, my feelings toward AGD have nothing to do with what I posted. And the issues I feel are attributable to Mags have been said by myself from the day I picked one up.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:02 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I figure if they want to sell more then they need to bring the pro-classic down to a competitive price with the 98c/a5. I think if they made a package with a decent expansion chamber vert air and a nice single trigger frame for about $200 they would be more competitive for the beginner woods player.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:05 PM   #18 (permalink)
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in order for AGD to survive modern paintball players have to change. AGD is company that makes great quality products and doesn;t care about the sex appeal and glame of it all.
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Old 02-12-2007, 06:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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ADG would be well off to cater to the 'Tinker' market too.

i mean, how many of you would just love to pick up a body, valve and frame (or trigger group) of your choice to install in a custom shell?

one of the prime advantages of the Automag design is that it's a bloody tube with a gripframe attached

if i had the workshop and funds to do it, i would be working on several custom markers 'Powered by AGD'

there are so many ways AGD could go, but unfortunately, only two or three would bring them back to the spotlight, and maybe a half dozen would keep them in business.

one of the charms of AGD, is that it will never *be* Smart Parts/Kingman/Indian Creek. that might be a good marketing angle to go for.

man, i would be first in line for a chance to design their next marketing campaign
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:10 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Shartley has a point there. Mags are definitely a quality item. However, they (now) lack all the bolt on BS that a marker needs to be successful (Hell, no one even makes twist lock barrels anymore! Do they?). Don't think I'm right? Look at what markers went and died off. Vector, the ICD cat line, the Storm... All those lacked aftermarket goodies to bolt on to make your gun your gun. If you think having to add stuff to your gun is less rather than more, think about it another way. Adding all that crap is half the fun. Look at the success of companies like UMS and Spec-Ops. Paintball players like to accessorize! I know I'm a little rambling with this post but hey...
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