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Old 02-12-2007, 07:20 PM   #21 (permalink)
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But that is the problem, mags don't need any bolt on BS
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:48 PM   #22 (permalink)
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But that is the problem, mags don't need any bolt on BS
Good for us bad for sales. What was the last gun that enjoyed wide success with out all the aftermarket crap?
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Old 02-12-2007, 07:52 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I guess I am not the type of customer most marketing types are looking for. The fact that AGD 'guns have no need for aftermarket anything is appealing to me.

Comparing the Classic Automag with the 98 really isn't apples to apples, as we all know. Admittedly, getting the masses to adopt that line of thought is next to impossible. Having owned a M98 at one point, there isn't really a comparison between the two when talking fit and finish. Not to mention the fact that you are getting a quality regulator to boot when buying the Automag.

Besides my earlier sales idea, I think one thing AGD could do to really help sell the Automag is sell it with a milled aluminum body and 'Cocker threads. Give the customizers the ability to get a nice anno job and give us oldschoolers a sight rail milled right into the body. On top of that, it sounds as though making the SS body isn't exactly easy. Combined with the material cost differences (SS vs. aluminum), I think a milled body (different from the ULE bodies) would be a good financially and for the consumer.

Hmmm...methinks I need a Pro-Team Micromag body to play with!
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Old 02-12-2007, 08:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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What we need is a major-league tourney team that agrees on their own volition to run Mags, and for them to win or at least run well enough that the kids go nuts. The local kids are all already asking me where I got my chrome and blue-splash Classic.

But that they give us advance warning so we can stock up on gear, because AGD will then start laser-engraving and AGG-coloring their bodies for the sake of tripling their prices.
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:05 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Comparing the Classic Automag with the 98 really isn't apples to apples, as we all know. Admittedly, getting the masses to adopt that line of thought is next to impossible.
I think you've shown your own axe to grind in the other direction, JKR

Us poor masses, that are so far below your perspicacity? Sorry we're all so misinformed

Having also owned both mags and a Tippy Procarb my perspective is a little different. You love your mag, and I loved mine but it shot no further and no faster or better(IMO) than my PC.
Both will dependably fire more paintballs than the average PBaller will ever shoot, both were comfortable and dependable.
I understand your point about fit and finish and looks, but that's not something I attach as much importance to as you seem to. There's no difference between insistence that your gun NOT have flashy stuff and insisting that it DOES have flashy stuff, it's all just about looks. Show over substance.

For the rest I agree with TrracerAce,
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I honestly don't see how it could be better for AGD without them abandoning what makes them so great in the first place. They're a niche market just like Palmer's.
Rob
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Old 02-12-2007, 10:34 PM   #26 (permalink)
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I think you've shown your own axe to grind in the other direction, JKR

Us poor masses, that are so far below your perspicacity? Sorry we're all so misinformed

Having also owned both mags and a Tippy Procarb my perspective is a little different. You love your mag, and I loved mine but it shot no further and no faster or better(IMO) than my PC.
Both will dependably fire more paintballs than the average PBaller will ever shoot, both were comfortable and dependable.
I understand your point about fit and finish and looks, but that's not something I attach as much importance to as you seem to. There's no difference between insistence that your gun NOT have flashy stuff and insisting that it DOES have flashy stuff, it's all just about looks. Show over substance.

For the rest I agree with TrracerAce,


Rob
I believe you have misunderstood my point. I still own an Tippmann and in fact, had no problems with either the M98 or my ProLite that I owned years ago. My current SL-68 II is far from a beauty queen and my point had nothing to do with appearances. Fit and finish is also about the quality of the machining and the feel of the 'gun in your hand. If you feel that the tolerances, the feel of the 'gun in operation, the recoil, and the consistency of the Model 98 is on par with the Automag, then I have no problem with that. I just don't agree that the Model 98 is in the same league as the Automag. By your definition, you might as well own a Spyder as a Typhoon...if velocity and ROF is your only means of choosing a 'gun.

My point, you get far more 'gun for $229 in a ProClassic than you do with a Model 98 or any other mechanical blowback in the price range of $150-$200.
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Old 02-13-2007, 03:50 AM   #27 (permalink)
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No, I would say there's a huge dependability gap between a spyder and a typhoon, by that I mean 'is this marker going to take a poop on me during a game', my experience with spyders says that it is way more likely to break down than a typhoon or a mag or a tippmann.

That experience also says that a Mag and Tippmann are equally dependable. Either my minimag or my procarbine breaking down on me during a game would be a real shock it happens so rarely, but it does happen and about equally with both. I only have a limited amount of time for paintballing and it enrages me to spend that precious time fixing ANY marker, when I spend all day at work fixing stuff.

So while you might get a marker YOU 'like far more' for $229 in a ProClassic, I disagree that you're 'getting more marker' than you do with a Model 98 or any other equally dependable mechanical blowback in the price range of $150-$200.
I understand that fit and finish is also about the quality of the machining, but it doesn't make a mag any more dependable than a tippmann, so IMO, it's pure window dressing.

Rob
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Old 02-13-2007, 04:47 AM   #28 (permalink)
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hah, as for the mag vs tippy thing....i really prefir my classic mag over my 98 custom. only because the tippmann is too long for me when i play speedball.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:12 PM   #29 (permalink)
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So while you might get a marker YOU 'like far more' for $229 in a ProClassic, I disagree that you're 'getting more marker' than you do with a Model 98 or any other equally dependable mechanical blowback in the price range of $150-$200.
I understand that fit and finish is also about the quality of the machining, but it doesn't make a mag any more dependable than a tippmann, so IMO, it's pure window dressing.

Rob

At no point did I mention the dependability of the M98 vs the Automag. In fact, I would have to give the dependability award to the M98. M98 seals and orings don't react like the 'Mag parts do to liquid and dirt. Additionally, the M98 is the workhorse of the industry - just ask field owners across the country. My M98 was loaned out to new players and never once had a problem-either in my hands or theirs. Neither did my ProLite.

You seem to feel that my statements center around the appearance and dependability of the Automag. I could care less about appearances. If I cared about appearances, I would get a ULE body with all the "fixin's" available and trick out my Automag. Nope, I prefer the flat stainless finish and my bolt-on sight rail to all the flashy stuff. I have a rather large expansion chamber hanging off the vertical ASA to assist me in my choice of CO2 over HPA in appropriate climates. My point is that in all respects that I can think of, the 'Mag just performs and feels better than a M98 and is worth the additional $70 difference in price (to me anyway). Some refer to it as more refined...

It is quite evident you must take me as an AGD elitist. I don't think of myself as anything of the sort. By "the masses" I am referring simply to the ordinary player on the field and the perception they carry about the Automag. I really feel that the decline in sales of the Automag has little to do with the performance of the 'gun. Sure, the trigger takes a little getting used to (like an Autococker or Blazer) but I believe that sales have ultimately declined because AGD stopped advertising and aggressively selling it. Maybe they are content with where they are currently, who knows? My only point in starting this thread was to bounce around ideas about how AGD could sell more 'Mags and perhaps use those profits and notoriety to introduce new products.
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Old 02-13-2007, 01:14 PM   #30 (permalink)
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AGD wont be able to reduce prices much mor ethan they are. To do so, would require them to get parts made in China or Taiwan, then the well known quality suffers. AGD is perfectly fine the way it is. Why do people want them to advertise? What would that accomplish? Think about what a classic mag USED to sell for, what $499 or so? and that was 12-14 years ago, so it would be more like $800 or more in todays dollars. So now its $229, thats an excellent price. But people these days want more perceived value in their guns. A Tippmann for $159 seems like a better deal to most players. Is it a better deal? Well if you think it is, then yes. What I mean is what works best for you is what you should do. AGD has also tried to develop products that the "Players" wanted and then got stiffed when they tried to sell them (Roller Trigger anyone?). So why should they develop new things? So the small AGD market can buy a few items, and AGD wont be able recoup their investment? The smaller guys making things for Mags is perfect for the AGD maket, they can make small run items and sell them all (making a smal profit), where AGD has to make much larger runs, and may not be able to sell them all (losing money).

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