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Old 04-22-2010, 10:48 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Tuning my mag... its making me old, its my private shame...

My setup
Classic valve
LVL10 bolt
HPA/C02
Im thinking about installing a ULE trigger, if i can figure out the LVL10

My dilemma, my shame...
I like working on my own markers, ive never let anyone else service my markers. But the plethora of info/opinions/posts on how to setup my LVL10, and all the keywords used in the mag world "trim the pin" shim this, shim that..
What? Im at a loss, I have to get this thing ready before D-day and I need it to be %100. If I cant get my mag going I can use my shim-less dependable ICD thundercat.


Heck I can tune a cocker! this fricken mag is ticking me off.... O-rings this-shimming that..
I need to be eju-mi-cheated on how to set this thing up, im worn out- I need a K.I.S.S. link.

A recap of my shame.
1. The dark art of setting up my LVL10
2. Shimming, why?
3. Trimming the on/off pin, why?
4. Spacers for the rail or what ever, why?
5. Adjusting the trigger rod in/out, what does it do?
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Big question...


Do you have the factory instructions? If no, why not???

You should be able to get them in a PDF from AO, and I have never had an issue after following them. Forget forum nonsense, go to the source.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:20 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I you haven't checked already, here's the tuning guide for the Level 10

Automags Online - Resources: The Level 10

As far as the other stuff, I've never really done any of that to any of my mags and have never had any issues. The only thing I have done is adjust the trigger rod to be closer to the back of the trigger to eliminate a little bit of slop. You will want to be able to slide a credit card between the trigger rod and the trigger when the gun is aired up. Some people have had good luck with the ULT in a classic valve. But since there is not a large force pushing the on/off pin like in the RT or X-Valves, you will probably get a lot of chuffing if you're not really careful.

Good luck.
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Old 04-22-2010, 11:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Automags Online - Resources: The Level 10

Shimming refers to fine tuning the level 10 and ULTs with thin shims. AGD instructions will guide you through the steps when necessary.

Don't trim the trigger pin, don't adjust the trigger rod length unless its not at it's proper length, and don't put spacers in the rail.

There is probably about a 1% chance of the ULT reliably working in your classic valve. You'll get a lot better results from replacing your stock on/off with a RT on/off.
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Old 04-22-2010, 12:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Thanks Rob, thanks guys,
Ya the the forum stuff is pages long- i just want a A,B,C.

Now see I didn't know you could put an RT on/off in place of the stock on/off. This will give me a shorter/lighter pull?
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Old 04-22-2010, 01:26 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Thanks Rob, thanks guys,
Ya the the forum stuff is pages long- i just want a A,B,C.

Now see I didn't know you could put an RT on/off in place of the stock on/off. This will give me a shorter/lighter pull?
The RT on/off will work, but there is no specified size for the proper pin to use. You might have to tinker with that. I have found that generally, longer pics work with what you are trying to do. like .750 or .760.
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Old 04-22-2010, 01:38 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Thanks Rob, thanks guys,
Ya the the forum stuff is pages long- i just want a A,B,C.

Now see I didn't know you could put an RT on/off in place of the stock on/off. This will give me a shorter/lighter pull?
I've put an R/T on/off in most of my classics without any issues, its just been a drop in. It does lighten the trigger pull considerably (nowhere near ULT, but better than the stock on/off). Plus I think its a snappier pull, but that may be just me. As far as a "shorter" pull, you will still want to make sure you pull the trigger completely so as not to short stroke, so I don't think it makes that big of a difference in that regard.
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Old 04-22-2010, 03:57 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Hmmm all this talk about short stroking and chuffing is new to me. until I got this classic valve ive only shot a retro valve, the retro pushes your trigger back forword.

im wondering if I should just stay with the retro valve and just lower my PSI input to loose the RT- The RT is to much of a gas hog.
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Old 04-22-2010, 05:00 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Hmmm all this talk about short stroking and chuffing is new to me. until I got this classic valve ive only shot a retro valve, the retro pushes your trigger back forword.

im wondering if I should just stay with the retro valve and just lower my PSI input to loose the RT- The RT is to much of a gas hog.
Tuna can drill that retro valve for about $20 so that it can work with the ult. I have one he did and it works awesome
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:43 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
A recap of my shame.
1. The dark art of setting up my LVL10
2. Shimming, why?
3. Trimming the on/off pin, why?
4. Spacers for the rail or what ever, why?
5. Adjusting the trigger rod in/out, what does it do?
Before we begin. Install your classic on/off back in your valve to tune the lvl 10. We'll get back to the other on/off later.

1.Install your lvl 10 per the diagram....



...with the 2.0 carrier and NO shims.




Air up your marker and fire a few shots. If your not leaking out the front, go up a carrier (2.5). Rinse and repeat till it starts leaking the go back one. Your lvl 10 is now tuned. MAKE SURE YOU USE THE SAME PT ORING (#9 white oring, goes inside the carrier) WHEN GOING UP OR DOWN CARRIERS...VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY IMPORTANT.

2. Your shims are only used if your bolt isn't resetting right after you trip your newly installed lvl 10. Go ahead and stick something down the feedtube or the front of the marker and trip it. If it doesn't reset (leaks) add a shim and trip the lvl 10 again. Rinse and repeat till your bolt is resetting properly. As for your bolt spring. Doesn't mater too much which one you have installed (gold, red or gray). One thing to remember, the longer it is, the easier it's going to be on the paint. I found that the red spring is the all around spring to use. The gray one isn't meant so much to be used as is. It's for those that want to tinker with their lvl 10 sensitivity. Don't worry about it till you get a better understanding of the setup.

3. Shaving the pin is mainly done for RT effect. The shorter your pin the better RT effect you get in a RT Valve. In a classic, since the on/off isn't designed for that valve, you might have to adj for it if it's not working properly. One of the biggest issues with a RT on/off in a classic is you'll have tension in the trigger but it won't fire. Like BE said, you have to tinker with that yourself.

4. I have no clue what your talking about there bro. Sorry.

5. You should have a gap about the thickness of a credit card between the sear arm and the trigger once the marker is aired up. Adj accordingly if you don't have that.

If you have any other questions let us know.

Last edited by Ando; 04-22-2010 at 07:47 PM.
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