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Old 05-10-2010, 05:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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level 10 problems/downsides?

I have a classic mag that I use a warp feed on and I would like to 100% eliminate chopping so I want to get a level 10 bolt for it. However, I heard that some people have significant problems with the bolt.

what are the downsides?
how will it affect efficiency?
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:21 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It cuts down your efficiency a little bit, but it is worth it. It can be difficult if you don't know anything about setting it up, but you will love it in the long run.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Not so much a downside as something most people don't mention when you order one. If you are getting one for a Classic or Mini-Mag you will need to purchase a new Regulator Piston Assembly (Part Number: 000684-10) for the (built-in) regulator, as the regulator has a safety valve which will release air if it goes past a preset (and unadjustable) psi, this preset is lower than the psi needed to operate the Level 10 Bolt. Guess how I found this one out, yeah the hard way.

This Thing Regulator Piston Assembly
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:33 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by sunshaker View Post
Not so much a downside as something most people don't mention when you order one. If you are getting one for a Classic or Mini-Mag you will need to purchase a new Regulator Piston Assembly (Part Number: 000684-10) for the (built-in) regulator, as the regulator has a safety valve which will release air if it goes past a preset (and unadjustable) psi, this preset is lower than the psi needed to operate the Level 10 Bolt. Guess how I found this one out, yeah the hard way.

This Thing Regulator Piston Assembly
I set up my Classic with a Level 10 bolt last year and I never had any issues. Can you elaborate?
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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If you can run a 'tight' bore on your paint (not really under-bored), you don't see a noticeable decrease in efficiency. Dry firing uses about twice the gas as shooting paint, so go easy while you're tuning it.

Once you get used to them, they are not much of a problem at all. They have usually kicked in a few times before I realize I have a problem, like the end of the loader or dead batteries. I just traded off the last of my level 7 mags. Even my CO2 setup has a level 10 in it now.

The three minimag and classic valves I've had a level 10 in didn't require a new reg piston. That is a real (known, actual) problem that seems to occur randomly. You don't know you need a new piston until you try it.
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:57 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by idkfa View Post
I set up my Classic with a Level 10 bolt last year and I never had any issues. Can you elaborate?
The worst bit is that it is a "not in all cases problem" which makes it hard to know if you need that extra part.

If your bolt will not fire when installing the Level 10 kit on an unmodified Classic Valve (so no aftermarket parts/regs/etc) and:
- you have tried all the Carriers and Shims and it will not fire
- you have tried with different springs and it will not fire
- you have tried it without a barrel and it will not fire
- you have made sure the screws are in the correct depth
- you have turned the velocity it up all the way until it leaks out the back of the valve (a mag safety feature to prevent you from shooting it at way to high of an fps) and you turn it down just until it stops leaking and it will not fire
> The solution to your problem is a new Regulator Piston Assembly.

You go to Automags.Org Online Forums - ** Official Level 10 Problems Thread ** and read the thread and every time that exact problem shows up in the thread the answer is "You need a new Regulator Piston Assembly."

And if you follow the link to the AGD site and read the part description you will see the line "This part has been set to the stock higher pressure for the Level 10 bolt kit."

Basically it all depends on the Mag you have, the machining tolerances when it was built, the wear it has gone through, how everything fits together, so basically random luck (and I was unlucky). It may even depend if you have had it serviced by AGD as they may have replaced that part as part of the standard servicing or if your Level 10 was installed by an AGD licensed tech/dealer as they may have replaced it without mentioning it.
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Old 05-10-2010, 11:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The trigger pull gets heavier, especially if you opt for the red spring. I went back to level 7 and just use a fast loader.
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