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Old 06-26-2010, 06:09 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Some Noob RT Questions

Iíve owned a couple of AutoMag Classics and Iím thinking about getting an RT but Iíve got a couple of questions.

AutoMag RT Classic, AutoMag RT ULE, AutoMag RT Pro, etcÖAre these all the same thing? Iíve found a couple of RTís that were built around 2004 Ė 2006. Are there any differences between these years and a newer one? An older one?

I read somewhere that the ďinput pressureĒ is what determines the reactivity of the valve, i.e. Is this referring to the pressure at which the HPA tank is set to release the air (I donít really know much about HPA tanks)? How do you set it? Can anyone do it or would I have to have a paintball or SCUBA shop do it?

Iíve seen some with Intelleframes and some without. Does this frame affect the RT effect at all or is it just for comfort and so that the marker will work better with a warpfeed?
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:24 PM   #2 (permalink)
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RT Pro's and RT ULE's are basically the same . AGD just made a name change from Pro to ULE when the lightweight autococker threaded aluminum bodies and X Valves became standard . Earlier RT Pro's can have classic bodies , RT Pro Valve , carbon fiber frames , and the RT Pro rail . The RT Pro valve is basically the same as the Xvalve other than the Xvalve marked as Xvalve while the RT Pro valve is marked RT Pro . Internally , the valves are the same . The RT Pro rail has wings in the back underneath the valve and screw holes for a foregrip mount and sight rail . The ULE rail has hole for the foregrip adapter to be mounted directly to the rail . The ULE rail does not have the wings or holes drilled in the side for a foregrip mount or sight rail.

RT Classic is the first RT released . There is a few differences between it and the Pro/ULE . Air is not fed directly into the side of the valve like a classic valve or RT Pro/Xvalve . The valve retaining screw of the RT Classic is also a banjo bolt . That is a hollowed out bolt to allow air to pass through it . The banjo is fed air through channels in the rail . The Rail has six 1/8 NPT threaded holes in the wings (three on each side) for air input . Both the RT Classic and origional RT Pro rail have wings (i.e. wider in the back underneath the valve) , but the classic is the one with air input holes drilled into it , The RT Pro rail does not have holes drilled in the wings .

Input pressure does control reactivity of the valve . Input pressure into the marker is the output pressure from the tank . There are adjustable regs available and they are user adjustable . Reactivity from RT valves kicks in at about 900psi and gets faster as the pressure goes up . 1200psi max is about the highest output rate you will find with currently available regs . AGD's Flatline is adjustable to 1200 , so are Smart Part Max Flo's and Air America regs . Ninja regs have to be custom built by the factory if you want outputs above 1000psi ; but standard Ninja regs are adjustable up to 1000psi , beyond that , the standard Ninja reg loses consistancy. There's a few other adjustable regs out there but those listed above are the main adjustable regs used by mag owners.

The Intelliframe was made for the warp feed . Inside the intelli is a spot to mount a switch to activate the warp .
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Old 06-26-2010, 07:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for the good info Guardian. How many BPS can be expected from an RT at the PSI's that youve mentioned? I ask because all of the videos on youtube show RT's shoot at around 20bps but I've been speaking with someone who has an RT ULE (X-Valve, Level 10, trigger pull kit...doesnt have an intelleframe) for sale that was built in 2006...he told me that it is shooting at 6-10 bps...Seems really low to me based on everything else that I've heard and I don't know if I should be taking that as a red flag to not buy his marker.

Thanks.
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Old 06-26-2010, 08:40 PM   #4 (permalink)
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There could be a couple/few reasons for his slow rate of fire . The input pressure only being one of those reasons . Other reasons revolve around orings needing replaced , valve needing cleaned , could have one of the longer on/off pins , etc.... . To reach a 20+ rate of fire , you will pretty much need over 1000psi input.
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Old 06-26-2010, 09:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Yes, on a good RT setup, lower pressure slows the rate of fire. With an adjustable bottle reg, you can set the RT fairly easily from about 12 to 20, going about 850 to 1000 psi. For me, lower rates are harder to keep going, whereas at 19 bps you have to avoid shooting too much (for everyone). Fast bottle regulator response is necessary to keep RT going. A sluggish adjustable bottle at 950 psi may not work as well as a very fast crossfire at ~850 psi.

New o-rings can slow you down a little. They can break in but not really take off until you throw in that new drop of oil.

You need a good (fast) loader to keep up. If you learn to use and tune a level 10 bolt, you can use any loader, but that may be your limit on rof.
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Old 06-26-2010, 10:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider! View Post
Yes, on a good RT setup, lower pressure slows the rate of fire. With an adjustable bottle reg, you can set the RT fairly easily from about 12 to 20, going about 850 to 1000 psi. For me, lower rates are harder to keep going, whereas at 19 bps you have to avoid shooting too much (for everyone). Fast bottle regulator response is necessary to keep RT going. A sluggish adjustable bottle at 950 psi may not work as well as a very fast crossfire at ~850 psi.

New o-rings can slow you down a little. They can break in but not really take off until you throw in that new drop of oil.

You need a good (fast) loader to keep up. If you learn to use and tune a level 10 bolt, you can use any loader, but that may be your limit on rof.
I found new orings gave me a very high RT effect. Damn near full auto they were so tight. They have worn in now so its not nearly so touchy.
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Old 06-27-2010, 02:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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For reference, I can get roughly 21 BPS on a stock RT Pro with a new Crossfire tank that puts out at ~850 psi.

This is me dry firing.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:33 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Those new crossfires are real tempting.

What you have above is pretty much the usual spread of RT experience.

Take a sluggish valve and clean it inside and out. Give it new FRESH o-rings; be careful of rebuild kits that are 10 years old. Give it some synthetic oil (air tool or a little thicker) and a fast regulator. If the reg isn't too fast, maybe you can crank up the pressure to make up for it. Make sure you don't have some flow restriction like an ASA with a pinhole for a air port or a pin that won't open your bottle all the way. If it shoots but doesn't RT continuously right off, give it some play and oil.
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Old 07-02-2010, 06:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Thanks for the great info everyone; I appreciate it. It sounds like its pretty important to use a quality HPA tank/regulator setup with RT's. What kind of setup would you recommend? It sounds Crossfires are preferred. What makes them better?

The Crossfire website has the 45/4500 for $129 and the 68/4500 for $134 which seems like a pretty good deal. How many shots should I expect to get out of each?

Also, I've got a real old HPA tank that hasnt been used in years and it has a Crossfire regulator on it. Pictures are below...Can anyone tell me how old it is? I would assume that the reg is the same age as the bottle but there isnt a serial number, etc on the reg. Would there be a significant difference in performance between this old setup and a new setup? Would it be worth getting it tested and using this on an RT, or will I wish I had a 4500 PSI tank?

Thanks in advance for everyone's help!

The re-test date is '04 in case you cant read it with the glare.



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Old 07-03-2010, 12:07 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Crossfire has always made a quality, high flowing reg. The original date is near the right edge of the label, so can't be read in the picture, but if I had to guess, I'd say it's about 10 years old. Might be cheaper to have it tested, then to purchase another.
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