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Old 10-17-2010, 02:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by dukie View Post
I have used it a bunch of times and the level 10 has been working fine ( at field speeds). just to rule it out I put a new oring in and tuned it. No difference. The old oring was damn near brown, ugly looking. It had a slight leak once in a while.

I'm already usin a standard mainspring.
I would say we're getting pretty thin in that case. Pin length (shorter) should help, but the inconsistency is still a concern. As a test you can fiddle with the pin length by adding a shim of about 0.020" between the body and the rail, just under the valve. That will drift everything down.

Brown o-rings stink,. Do you know how long that one had been in there?

Another source of weirdness in mags is when the frame screws are not tight enough to hold everything in place after firing for "a while". That's usually more of a problem when the rail bushing is missing and I don't know if there is any possibility of shifting with a classic RT setup.

One thing I like to do on my sears is to polish the end where the on/off pin rides. There are usually tool marks going across the face from where the part was stamped. If you polish them out, I usually find the face has been reduced about 0.005", which you can count toward a shorter pin.
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Old 10-19-2010, 09:59 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Until it all works, just leave the shims out. I think I have three shims scattered across four level 10s.

Check that your bolt moves pretty freely. It should be just tight enough that it doesn't fall off when you tilt it down over your hand. I've had one that I couldn't even feel the seal. It started leaking a tiny bit after a while, but I was impressed that it sealed at all.

Sometimes the o-ring is exactly between carrier sizes, always too tight or too loose. I'll polish the inside with a rod and compound if its a new one with a mold line in it.

I would think a restrictive ASA would not be an intermittent problem. You definitely need to deal with the squishy trigger syndrome before worrying about the RT.

Bolt stick would be typical. I also have to admit that I run most of my level 10s with a stock spring. I use a longer red spring in one classic mag, which has given me a trigger problem before.

Have you chrony'd this marker? I can't remember. You need to have it shooting at or near velocity when poking around with the level 10.
Removed both shims. MUCH better. Now my level 10 leaks though. Need to tune that again tomorrow night.

I also cleaned all of my old oil out of it and relubed with what I am positive is gold cup. Just in case the wrong viscosity might have been coming into play. Didn't seem to make any difference.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:42 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I also cleaned all of my old oil out of it and relubed with what I am positive is gold cup. Just in case the wrong viscosity might have been coming into play. Didn't seem to make any difference.
Keep an eye on your urethane colors. We used to get brown(er) o-rings after about a year with gold cup. I don't see much aging with the newer synthetic oils. Could have been the combination with storage heat though. My mags stay in the house now.

Do take a look at that sear face under the on/off pin. Polishing it makes sense to me.
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Old 10-19-2010, 10:56 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Keep an eye on your urethane colors. We used to get brown(er) o-rings after about a year with gold cup. I don't see much aging with the newer synthetic oils. Could have been the combination with storage heat though. My mags stay in the house now.

Do take a look at that sear face under the on/off pin. Polishing it makes sense to me.
If I remember it I will take it to the shop and give it a shot on the buffer. I was thinking you were talking about the contact point with the bolt. Thats already pretty smooth. The on/off contact point is another story.
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Old 10-19-2010, 11:46 PM   #15 (permalink)
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If I remember it I will take it to the shop and give it a shot on the buffer. I was thinking you were talking about the contact point with the bolt. Thats already pretty smooth. The on/off contact point is another story.
Yeah, I don't jack with the bolt catch area in the front.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:44 AM   #16 (permalink)
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And when you have that sear out, put a little oil on the pivot. The RT kick has more than 4 pounds on it, so a little film there should help.
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Old 10-20-2010, 03:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Oh, duh. It is a lot harder to get a powerful RT when you use a level 10 bolt.

The level 10 works at a much higher chamber pressure than a level 7. You are probably going to need an adjustable tank in order to get a good RT since the RT effect is caused by a differential of pressures from the tank to the chamber and 1050 tank pressure isn't quite high enough over chamber pressure.

Get an adjustable tank or a lvl 7 bolt.
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Old 10-20-2010, 04:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Oh, duh. It is a lot harder to get a powerful RT when you use a level 10 bolt.

The level 10 works at a much higher chamber pressure than a level 7. You are probably going to need an adjustable tank in order to get a good RT since the RT effect is caused by a differential of pressures from the tank to the chamber and 1050 tank pressure isn't quite high enough over chamber pressure.

Get an adjustable tank or a lvl 7 bolt.
Owww. That information in my brain hasn't been poked in awhile. There's an ancient AO thread on chamber pressures that's pretty good. Iirc, both the level 7 and level 10 are sub 500 psi, about 70 psi apart.

It's true though, every little bit helps when they are being stubborn. It doesn't help that the level 10 uses a little more air either. Once they wear in, they can be very cooperative. The level 10 has to be tuned well in the first place. I don't think the RT "rules" are real tight. I have a well worn x-valve with ULT and lvl 10 that will do a slow (~12 bps) RT burst of 2-4 balls on a crossfire tank.

I tinkered with my first x-valve (level 10) for a month at over 1000 psi on the max-flo. After cleaning it up before an event, it kicked in at 19 bps and I had to cut the reg back to about 900 psi to meet 15 bps.

Did you know that you can suppress a 90 degree field of fire at 19 bps?

***
It isn't the gauge thread I was looking for, but here's athomas in unusual verbosity.

Filled chamber pressure varies with the velocity and bolt spring. In the end, the depleted dump chamber is between 50 and 100 psi, depending on the bolt. That's a 5% difference on a 1000 psi input. Easily compensated for, but a definite boost if necessary.

***
ah! It was my old hero, the electrician post #47

I needed to refresh those neurons. I used the electrician's posts to start my classic valved SMAC mag.
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Old 10-20-2010, 08:37 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Owww. That information in my brain hasn't been poked in awhile...
Yeah I completely forgot about it until today. Also, some RT's will go nuts at 1000psi, some need > 1200psi. It all depends on so many variables about that particular valve/tank.
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Old 10-20-2010, 09:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Oh, duh. It is a lot harder to get a powerful RT when you use a level 10 bolt.

The level 10 works at a much higher chamber pressure than a level 7. You are probably going to need an adjustable tank in order to get a good RT since the RT effect is caused by a differential of pressures from the tank to the chamber and 1050 tank pressure isn't quite high enough over chamber pressure.

Get an adjustable tank or a lvl 7 bolt.
Without the shims in the level 10 it actually rt's fairly well. I think I just need to get used to it now.

I know it sure annoys the wife

It kind of surprised me that the level 10 shims made that much of a difference, from not RTing at all to doing it fairly well.

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Owww. That information in my brain hasn't been poked in awhile. There's an ancient AO thread on chamber pressures that's pretty good. Iirc, both the level 7 and level 10 are sub 500 psi, about 70 psi apart.

I'm going to go read those to fill my brain with even more trivia. Although I probably already did.

I took a stone to the sear, it was already fairly smooth. It had worn itself in fairly well already. Can't hurt though.

Thanks for the help guys !!
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