Paintball

[Ando]

You should have a gap between the trigger and sear arm about 1/16 inch (or about the thickness of a credit card) when aired up.

[Spider!]

Originally Posted by Ando

You should have a gap between the trigger and sear arm about 1/16 inch (or about the thickness of a credit card) when aired up.

I think that is an old dye trigger (or like the one that came on the frame). It doesn't have much of a forward stop, so I don't think you can ask for a "gap" there.

The trigger rod needs to be long enough to trip the sear. If it doesn't trip, take the grips off and push the sear back with something like an unsharpened pencil. Be careful of the 1200 psi RT effect (!). That will tell you if it is too short.

I don't think you can get it too long with that trigger, but the idea is that you don't want the trigger to stop the forward motion of the trigger rod. It comes forward a little extra when the sear first travels up. Then, the sear drops to where the angle on the bolt matches up, pulling the rod back a little.

Actually, I'm still back with dukie and Ty, wondering how the bottle change started all of this.

[LGswift]

I think I understand the theory behind the changes I'm making but some of the effects puzzle me. First I am going to set the trigger rod to an acceptable point with a classic valve and on/off.

Then I'm going to take the level 10 out of the ReTro and put on a level 7 bolt and test the differences in input pressure and length of on/off pin to gauge the reactivity.

Once that is all sorted out, then I'm going to move on to the level 10 and go through the tuning instructions with that. Hopefully it won't hamper any progress I've made.

Of course to do this I'll need a scuba tank worth of air and a whole day...
I'll try and find time in the next week to get this done so this thread stays current.
Cheers,
Ethan

[Ando]

Originally Posted by Spider!

I think that is an old dye trigger (or like the one that came on the frame). It doesn't have much of a forward stop, so I don't think you can ask for a "gap" there.

All he needs to do is hold the trigger forward when adj the sear to get the gap. The biggest thing is to make sure it's not sitting on the trigger when aired which will cause issues like short stroking and leaks

[LGswift]

Update:

I properly adjusted the trigger for my classic valve and before refilling my air, I took a silver shim out of my tank regulator. It now inputs 1100 psi compared to 1200. I used the proper length on/off pin and the .5 shim with a shorter silver bolt spring.

Testing without paint, it RT's mad fast and when I force it to chuff with a squeegie, the bolt doesn't immediately reset but will with the next trigger pull. I swapped to a stronger spring and that forced me to turn up the valve's pressure to allow it to fire but the delay seemed smaller in my head.

There is also a slight leak from the power-tube but I think once I wear in the new o-ring it will go away. I will try switching to the 0.0 carrier tomorrow and shoot it over the chrony to get it up to a use-able velocity.

I think the original problem I had was the adjustment on the valve wasn't high enough to allow the gun to fire with the above normal input pressure, hence the mushy trigger. I was hesitant to turn it up even higher because of my experiences with hot classic valves.

Cheers,
Ethan

Edit: My 68/45 filled to just under 3k doesn't seem to be lasting that long with the rapid fire. I have a big *** expansion chamber that takes up a lot of volume of the high pressure gas so taking the bottle on and off to make adjustments isn't all that conservative of gas. Do you guys run bigger cylinders in the range of 90-114? I play mostly recreational so we have scuba and cascade filling to about 3k but I'd like to get my initial 4500 psi fill to go further.

[Ando]

If it's slow to reset, add a lvl 10 shim the PT. If your leaking down the barrel. Hold the trigger down when you fire it. Wait a few sec. If it starts leaking, it's your on/off. If it stops leaking then you'll need to go down in your carrier. Remember to use the same inner carrier oring when swamping out the the smaller one.

[Spider!]

Originally Posted by LGswift

I think the original problem I had was the adjustment on the valve wasn't high enough to allow the gun to fire with the above normal input pressure, hence the mushy trigger. I was hesitant to turn it up even higher because of my experiences with hot classic valves.

Cheers,
Ethan

Edit: My 68/45 filled to just under 3k doesn't seem to be lasting that long with the rapid fire. I have a big *** expansion chamber that takes up a lot of volume of the high pressure gas so taking the bottle on and off to make adjustments isn't all that conservative of gas. Do you guys run bigger cylinders in the range of 90-114? I play mostly recreational so we have scuba and cascade filling to about 3k but I'd like to get my initial 4500 psi fill to go further.

The level 10 does require a higher dump chamber pressure than the level 7 by about 50 psi (10%). So your velocity adjuster will normally be screwed in a little more with a level 10. You can often spot a classic with a level 10 just by looking at the depth of the adjuster after it is chronographed.

That higher pressure also comes with a higher residual pressure in the chamber after firing. When you dry fire a level 10, it's worse than a level 7 dry fire, which is pretty bad also. I've never counted dry shots, but I did notice my air drained very fast when testing the level 10. It goes back to close to normal consumption with paint.

The only thing you need to worry about is dry firing too much between filling your tank and playing. A poor fill and too much screwing around before the game can really put a dent in your "efficiency".

Our rule of thumb for total shots is

@3k fill, 10 shots / cu. in.
@4.5k fill, 15 shots / cu. in.

(+ / -) shot velocity and barrel fit.

[ArmyEngineer]

Looks like things are coming along here, but I thought I would throw in one more suggestion.

Lube. Last year I tried a somewhat viscous silicone based lube and it totally threw the timing off in my e-mag. I had exactly the same bolt stick symptoms. (Bolt not returning in time. Additional trigger pull allows reset.) Make sure you are using a suitable light weight synthetic oil.

[OneSelfLost]

I have found that when dry firing, I can drain a 3k in appox 150 shots, not that I sit there and count, but lubing and running the oil through a couple valves in one sitting will render me airless.

Good to see a local Magger, I'm in Burlington. Feel free to message me if you need anything.