Paintball

[Titansteam]

Hey guys,

I got a problem that isn't one so much that I wanted to share with you; here is the deal;

My mag is just functionning, but too much!

It's a barely classic mag; specs are:

-Classic A.I.R valve
-ANS Phase II reg
-LVL 10 bolt kit
-Stock on/off
-Centerflag 201 adjustable preset
-Custom made roller bearing sear

Oh forgot to mention the valve has an efficiency mod by devolumizing the chamber; that coud have it role here.


Well, I was mounted with a 2-finger cocker frame, and when I tried out a carbon frame here is what happened;



When trigger half pulled, marker shoots semi

Tigger fully pulled, thing is going full auto.

Approx 34 cycles per second.

It's an A.I.R valve.

Wtfomgcrazybbqroxzomgomgbbq?


Any thoughs?

[Spider!]

Missing top on/off o-ring (one or two of two).

Or

Upside-down on/off pin.

But for 34 bps, I lean toward the former.

[dukie]

Trigger rod adjustment.

[Titansteam]

Originally Posted by Spider!

Missing top on/off o-ring (one or two of two).

Or

Upside-down on/off pin.

But for 34 bps, I lean toward the former.

On/Off O-rings are right in place, and my pin is mounted slot-side up; I did it because back in the days I had dropout issues with it mounted right way, which disappered when mounting it upside down ^^

And that leads us to the...

Originally Posted by dukie

Trigger rod adjustment.

Right!

As I swapped the grip frame it seems like the sear rod was set longer on the 2 finger frame, and is now too long with the single finger setup.

And these two things (upside-down on/off pin AND longer sear rod) leads to the on/off pin to be pushed more forward, until the pin slot lets the air pass thru the on/off, even with the bolt uncatched by the sear.


So the air is continuously flowing out of the valve, escaping out of the bolt in forward position, and being pushed backwards by the return spring the bolt bounces back forth, helped by the air flow!

To sum up the bolt is just traveling back and forth under the alternative efforts of the air flow and the return spring, meaning that by this solution we certainly found out the physical maximum ROF of the mag.

...Which can be improved by swapping a stiffer return spring, and increasing operating pressure by example.

I will have to test out how consistent that could render with paint, and find out if the velocity differences between single shot (chamber fully charged) and full auto (air flow just going thru) modes

If it worked this could be an alternative to RT mags, but without the ability of ROF variation (but that could still be set to be fixed, by changing return springs and bolts; L7 is heavier meaning more inertia meaning less rof this way), and certainly a bit less efficient ^^

[ta2maki]

Keep in mind that the cycling you have may not be full cycles. That is, the bolt going all the way forward and back.

The lvl7 bolt is not the limiting factor of ROF on a mag. The hole in which the air travels through to the on/off is. IIRC, the max ROF on a classic valve is about 12 before you start to get shootdown. The RT gets around this by increasing the pressure that flows through the on/off.

Have fun testing.

[Menace]

Originally Posted by ta2maki

Keep in mind that the cycling you have may not be full cycles. That is, the bolt going all the way forward and back.

The lvl7 bolt is not the limiting factor of ROF on a mag. The hole in which the air travels through to the on/off is. IIRC, the max ROF on a classic valve is about 12 before you start to get shootdown. The RT gets around this by increasing the pressure that flows through the on/off.

Have fun testing.

This, but IIRC, max pre-shootdown for the classic is a bit higher, near 16bps.

[Titansteam]

Originally Posted by ta2maki

Keep in mind that the cycling you have may not be full cycles. That is, the bolt going all the way forward and back.

The lvl7 bolt is not the limiting factor of ROF on a mag. The hole in which the air travels through to the on/off is. IIRC, the max ROF on a classic valve is about 12 before you start to get shootdown. The RT gets around this by increasing the pressure that flows through the on/off.

Have fun testing.

That makes sense, but why is it cycling more than the double of the theorical max ROF?

I think the efficiency mod has it's role here, as it is limitating the chamber volume, meaning with the same on/off hole size it will take less time to fully charge the chamber.


I made a second video to see how it keeps the shootdown, and it seems fine; running out of air at the end



At least, that's the most inefficient air blower of the world

[ta2maki]

Maybe not double as it seems max ROF is 16bps before shootdown(per Menace). When talking Automags, max cycling speed is different from max ROF. You may be dryfiring or cycling at 30 CPS, but it may not shoot paint at that ROF. A partially filled dump chamber may have enough energy to cycle the bolt, but not enough to propel the paintball.

[Titansteam]

Pertinent, well the only thing left to do is to test it out with paint!

[Menace]

So,

Whatever happened with this? My curiosity has been piqued the whole time.