mcarterbrown.com  

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-27-2011, 06:23 PM   #1 (permalink)
Workshop Pumper
 
Titansteam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: France

Classic automag going mad !?!

Hey guys,

I got a problem that isn't one so much that I wanted to share with you; here is the deal;

My mag is just functionning, but too much!

It's a barely classic mag; specs are:

-Classic A.I.R valve
-ANS Phase II reg
-LVL 10 bolt kit
-Stock on/off
-Centerflag 201 adjustable preset
-Custom made roller bearing sear

Oh forgot to mention the valve has an efficiency mod by devolumizing the chamber; that coud have it role here.


Well, I was mounted with a 2-finger cocker frame, and when I tried out a carbon frame here is what happened;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=am8HJE8FPR4

When trigger half pulled, marker shoots semi

Tigger fully pulled, thing is going full auto.

Approx 34 cycles per second.

It's an A.I.R valve.

Wtfomgcrazybbqroxzomgomgbbq?


Any thoughs?
__________________
Titan Prod Paintball, Custom parts and services
My Feedback I'm Paypal verified!
Titansteam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 06:46 PM   #2 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
Spider!'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Houston, TX

Missing top on/off o-ring (one or two of two).

Or

Upside-down on/off pin.

But for 34 bps, I lean toward the former.
__________________
My Feedback
Spider! is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2011, 06:51 PM   #3 (permalink)
more gooder
 
dukie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Kitchener, Ontario

Fan of EMR
CCM Fan
Trigger rod adjustment.
__________________
DSGs are in stock
V2 DSP - in stock
My Feedback
first strike pez dispensers in stock - pm me!
dukie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2011, 05:58 AM   #4 (permalink)
Workshop Pumper
 
Titansteam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: France

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spider! View Post
Missing top on/off o-ring (one or two of two).

Or

Upside-down on/off pin.

But for 34 bps, I lean toward the former.
On/Off O-rings are right in place, and my pin is mounted slot-side up; I did it because back in the days I had dropout issues with it mounted right way, which disappered when mounting it upside down ^^

And that leads us to the...
Quote:
Originally Posted by dukie View Post
Trigger rod adjustment.
Right!

As I swapped the grip frame it seems like the sear rod was set longer on the 2 finger frame, and is now too long with the single finger setup.

And these two things (upside-down on/off pin AND longer sear rod) leads to the on/off pin to be pushed more forward, until the pin slot lets the air pass thru the on/off, even with the bolt uncatched by the sear.


So the air is continuously flowing out of the valve, escaping out of the bolt in forward position, and being pushed backwards by the return spring the bolt bounces back forth, helped by the air flow!

To sum up the bolt is just traveling back and forth under the alternative efforts of the air flow and the return spring, meaning that by this solution we certainly found out the physical maximum ROF of the mag.

...Which can be improved by swapping a stiffer return spring, and increasing operating pressure by example.

I will have to test out how consistent that could render with paint, and find out if the velocity differences between single shot (chamber fully charged) and full auto (air flow just going thru) modes

If it worked this could be an alternative to RT mags, but without the ability of ROF variation (but that could still be set to be fixed, by changing return springs and bolts; L7 is heavier meaning more inertia meaning less rof this way), and certainly a bit less efficient ^^
__________________
Titan Prod Paintball, Custom parts and services
My Feedback I'm Paypal verified!
Titansteam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2011, 11:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
Yes, that is a joke ---->
 
ta2maki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunny Southern California

CCM Fan
AKA Fan
Brass N Wood Fan
Palmers Fan
Keep in mind that the cycling you have may not be full cycles. That is, the bolt going all the way forward and back.

The lvl7 bolt is not the limiting factor of ROF on a mag. The hole in which the air travels through to the on/off is. IIRC, the max ROF on a classic valve is about 12 before you start to get shootdown. The RT gets around this by increasing the pressure that flows through the on/off.

Have fun testing.
ta2maki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-28-2011, 08:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
Perfection will suffice
 
Menace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008

Quote:
Originally Posted by ta2maki View Post
Keep in mind that the cycling you have may not be full cycles. That is, the bolt going all the way forward and back.

The lvl7 bolt is not the limiting factor of ROF on a mag. The hole in which the air travels through to the on/off is. IIRC, the max ROF on a classic valve is about 12 before you start to get shootdown. The RT gets around this by increasing the pressure that flows through the on/off.

Have fun testing.
This, but IIRC, max pre-shootdown for the classic is a bit higher, near 16bps.
__________________
"Dude. I'm pretty sure he's behind one of those bunkers over there."



My Feedback: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html
Menace is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 04:08 AM   #7 (permalink)
Workshop Pumper
 
Titansteam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: France

Quote:
Originally Posted by ta2maki View Post
Keep in mind that the cycling you have may not be full cycles. That is, the bolt going all the way forward and back.

The lvl7 bolt is not the limiting factor of ROF on a mag. The hole in which the air travels through to the on/off is. IIRC, the max ROF on a classic valve is about 12 before you start to get shootdown. The RT gets around this by increasing the pressure that flows through the on/off.

Have fun testing.
That makes sense, but why is it cycling more than the double of the theorical max ROF?

I think the efficiency mod has it's role here, as it is limitating the chamber volume, meaning with the same on/off hole size it will take less time to fully charge the chamber.


I made a second video to see how it keeps the shootdown, and it seems fine; running out of air at the end

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjT_ljCGVOw

At least, that's the most inefficient air blower of the world
__________________
Titan Prod Paintball, Custom parts and services
My Feedback I'm Paypal verified!
Titansteam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 05:19 AM   #8 (permalink)
Yes, that is a joke ---->
 
ta2maki's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Sunny Southern California

CCM Fan
AKA Fan
Brass N Wood Fan
Palmers Fan
Maybe not double as it seems max ROF is 16bps before shootdown(per Menace). When talking Automags, max cycling speed is different from max ROF. You may be dryfiring or cycling at 30 CPS, but it may not shoot paint at that ROF. A partially filled dump chamber may have enough energy to cycle the bolt, but not enough to propel the paintball.
ta2maki is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2011, 05:30 AM   #9 (permalink)
Workshop Pumper
 
Titansteam's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: France

Pertinent, well the only thing left to do is to test it out with paint!
__________________
Titan Prod Paintball, Custom parts and services
My Feedback I'm Paypal verified!
Titansteam is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2011, 08:47 PM   #10 (permalink)
Perfection will suffice
 
Menace's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008

So,

Whatever happened with this? My curiosity has been piqued the whole time.
__________________
"Dude. I'm pretty sure he's behind one of those bunkers over there."



My Feedback: http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html
Menace is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » Paintball » The Armory » Air Gun Designs

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:48 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC