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Old 09-27-2012, 08:14 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Trouble shooting persistent leak on rt classic with level X

Hey fellas,

I'm still having difficulty troubleshooting a very tiny, yet persistent hiss down the barrel on my rt classic with a level X bolt.

I've gone through all the level X tuning guides and followed them to the letter. I've replaced all o-rings on the classic valve, on/off, field strip screw, and power tube tip.

I've gone through 4 cases of paint with a new power tube tip oring and gone though carriers 2 down to the smallest carrier, using the same power tube o-ring, then another 2 cases with a new power tube oring.

I've also changed the outer oring on the carrier. I'm troubleshooting with no shims and the white washer is in place. I've emptied half a bottle of gold cup oil and always oil everything before starting.

Pushing on the bolt with a swab doesn't change the pitch of the slow, tiny kiss. The hiss stops when I hold down the trigger.

I've only replaced the valve regulator piston with a new one, in terms of hardware.

Could a worn sear or on/off pin be the cause of this small hiss? I'm confident that I have broken in the new orings as directed, and beyond.

Removing the barrel and changing to other barrels has no impact on the hiss.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Worn sear, missing rail bushing, miss-adj trigger rod or worn bolt will cause a leak.

Pictures would be best of sear and bolt
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:51 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If Ando's suggestions don't determine the problem check for misalignment of the body / rail, by adjusting the grip frame screws, especially if its a banjo bolt on an RT. They should be finger tight not torqued down to tightly.
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Old 09-28-2012, 10:31 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Keep in mind, when you hold down the trigger and the hiss stops, you can rule out anything in the on/off and regulator. It has to be in the powertube or somewhere else affecting the bolt (all those things Ando mentioned).

Are you sure you've got the right size carrier installed, and it's not just too big? That's the first thing I'd look at.
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Old 09-28-2012, 12:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justus View Post
Keep in mind, when you hold down the trigger and the hiss stops, you can rule out anything in the on/off and regulator. It has to be in the powertube or somewhere else affecting the bolt (all those things Ando mentioned).

Are you sure you've got the right size carrier installed, and it's not just too big? That's the first thing I'd look at.
Yes. I started with the #2 carrier and worked my way down to the smallest carrier, using the same o-ring, with no change in the hiss. It was my understanding that pushing on the bolt with a squeegee and listening for a change in the pitch of the hiss would indicate a carrier size issue, but the hiss stayed the same, regardless of pressure on the bolt. There are no shims and I replaced ALL o-rings in the power tube.

I broke in the new o-rings on 4 cases of paint, and at least 6 tanks of 68/45 drying firing, with no change in the quality of the hiss. I made sure to read many listed threads across many forums for all possible causes of the hiss, with no solution other than what you said, changing the carriers. It made no difference.

This is my first mag, so I have no frame of reference for a worn/defective part. I went by the available diagrams to make sure I wasn't missing any parts as well.

Here are the pics of the components Ando mentioned. Please let me know what components are obviously worn, which may be contributing to the hiss. Is the bushing in place on my rail?










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Old 09-28-2012, 01:59 PM   #6 (permalink)
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does the whole power tube unscrew from the valve? maybe some one took it off for the efficiency inserts and that red o-ring got damaged? that could cause a lil hiss type leak? oh talk to Spider that dood is the man...he has a thread that shows all the mods he did to a RT classic that had a bunch of issues...great stuff!!!
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:08 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Nope, I can't unscrew it with my bare hands. I can only unscrew the valve body. I was told it was totally stock, other than the level X bolt, so I don't expect it to have the efficiency inserts. It sure doesn't perform like it has any efficiency mods installed. This thing is an air hog.
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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well here is a link to Spider's thread:

RT Classic Un-boxing thread and banjo bolt tips (big pics)

hoping maybe this will help?
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Old 09-28-2012, 02:41 PM   #9 (permalink)
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A classic RT will not have a rail bushing, btw.

The parts of the bolt and sear that you need to check for wear are not clearly visible in the pictures. You want to check where the sear and bolt meet.

Like Ando said, make sure the trigger rod is not right up against the trigger when the gun is gassed up. This will prevent the bolt from properly catching on the sear.

The lvl 10 can also leak if the carrier is too small. try going UP. Also try variations on the amount of shims. Usually, its something stupid.
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Old 09-28-2012, 03:02 PM   #10 (permalink)
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It's got approx 1mm of clearance with regards to the trigger and sear pin. The #2 and 1.5 carriers both had greater leaks with the same broken in o-ring. Going down to the smallest carriers reduced the leak to a hiss, with no change in the hiss between the remaining carriers. I did go back up in carrier size and the hiss became an outright leak. This made me think it was just a carrier size issue., until going to the smallest carriers didn't stop the hissing.

I've also varied the tension on the front frame screw and field strip screw to see if those were factors. I went from finger tight to slightly tighter, and back again with no change or improvement in the hiss.

I've gone from 0 shims to 3 shims with no change in the hiss. Would the broken twist lock pin from the valve body be causing the hiss?

I have an on/off on my armageddon and it took the trapped pressure in the valve approx 3-4 min to completely bleed dry until I heard the valve totally discharge. The gauge registered about 260 psi when I started timing the bleed out.

The hiss isn't enough to cause significant loss of air volume during a standard recball game, but it's still irritating on the principle of being unable to diagnose and repair it.
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