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Old 09-06-2007, 05:37 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Palmer Stabilizer for AIR replacement question.

Ooh, this caught my eye:



from this thread:

FS only Automag ULE, Hyperframe very short

and I have an idea, but need an answer.
Anyone know the recharge rate on a Stab?
I am wondering how close it would be to an RT valve.
If a Stab can eliminate shootdown at cycle rates > 3 c.p.s. (classic valve) it opens up a whole new avenue to pursue.

I'm not expecting RT speeds (26 c.p.s.) but 15 c.p.s. would be sweet.

I googled, but my google-fu sucks.

Thank you for your time.
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Old 09-06-2007, 05:51 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I heard of people gutting the stock reg and using a stab instead but ive never seen a shorty valve arrangement.
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Old 09-06-2007, 06:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Stock valves from the factory are rated 13 BPS

But 15 has been done without a problem.

I have been wondering the same thing. If it was the regulator that slowed down the maximum BPS of the classic valve, if gutting it and running a different reg would increase that.

Whoever that is just machined a piece that threaded right into where the original valve assembly went. I wanted to have a bunch made up but I didnt want to be the one to get in trouble if they blow out or something. Essentially it does the same thing as gutting the stock reg.
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:03 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Im fairly positive that the stab would have the flow and not choke. People have been gutting and replacing the regs on Desert foxes for a while now.

Cuhna- as long as they were made out of nothing less than 6061 you would be safe....and if you felt uneasy still you could always have them made from SS.

-Jake
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Old 09-06-2007, 08:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Someone on MCB makes those replacement plugs, but I can't remember who (Deus machina??)

Also, Keep in mind X-Valves are aluminum so it should be fine if done right.

-MR
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Old 09-06-2007, 09:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah. Thats a good way to drop a bunch of weight off the tail end of a mag anyways. It makes the classic mag feel a lot less hefty..balances more like a regular gun even if it isnt much lighter than the stock mag with a light weight foregrip.
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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A stab would easily have the recharge rate needed. I remember a thread where Palmer said that Tom Kaye tried the original Stab on his dyno and hit over 20+ no problem.

A fatty Stab should be even better in that department, and has a better pressure ratio to dial in your setting.

I'm actually using a fatty for the LPR on my pneumag project Rainman just completed. He added an extra port on the HP side to pass-through the HP to the classic valve while supplying LP air 90-100 psi air to the pneumatics. It should keep up easily.

Never thought of replacing the valve, although I agree with Cunha, for I did it to a Desert Fox a few years ago no problem.

I've got to think about this one, the operation on a mag is slightly different. One would have to deal with the on/off connection to the reg somehow to remove the weight. You would have to design a type of cap to thread the front on/off and tube to remove back half reg and springpack. Would require a washer to seal instead of the regulator seat, and would like to seal the airflow to the on/off from the reg. That wouldn't be real hard, but wouldn't be cheap.
*EDIT* I know see exactly what i'm describing on the original poster's pic. I would like to see that removed....*EDIT*


You could get lazy and just gut it and replace the regulator nut with a sealed connector, then you would have a volume chamber, but that could affect the flow with such a larger volume of air. It could slow the on/off return, but not sure. Not going to calculate that right now.

I thought about trying this myself, but a Classic will indeed hit 15bps as Cunha suggests, that is plenty fast for me, and the weight savings isn't a big deal. Plus, I just like Tom Kaye's design and the ease of use, maintainability.

Pics courtesy of Rainman.




Last edited by Litespeed; 09-10-2007 at 11:13 PM.
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:21 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I remember reading that the classic valve will shoot down at above 3 cps, but would running a stab eliminate this?

Thanks.
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Old 09-10-2007, 11:31 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You can definitely get a lot more than 3 cps off a standard A.I.R. valve without shootdown. I believe 13 cps is a more realistic figure.
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Old 09-11-2007, 12:28 AM   #10 (permalink)
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3 cps? What.....

Again, a classic valve will do around 13-15 bps arguably. Most claim 15 no problem.
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