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Old 03-23-2008, 10:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Party of A-5 View Post
And there is plenty of data showing brass is better,
post it up man, I would love to see it.
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Old 03-23-2008, 12:02 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I don't really buy into "brass is better" but my KP has no problem blending in despite a lack of anodizing. My PGP isn't annoed either and I wouldn't want an aluminum version of either one as it would either be too week or the tubes would be thick and clunky. Brass has it's place on fixed barreled guns and sleeved barrels due to its ease of machining and solder-ability. Additionally, if the owner is after a plating job there isn't much that is going to top a brass barrel as it is less likely to flake a nickel coat (I know it isn't what YOU want but others have other desires).

Given the option I choose fixed barreled guns. There is no way that the barrel is going to misalign or any chance for variation between cleanings. The fixed barrel is often much harder to clean a chop out of but if you are making every shot count then you probably aren't chopping anyway. After that I choose twist lock. Twist lock is awesome if you anticipate a need to clean the gun mid fire fight (I do when using a semi as I am so used to pump that I lay on the trigger too hard for the classic mag and I refuse to buy anything battery fed for paintball). If I weren't so broke I'd buy a second barrel and just swap when I chop. They are so fast on and off that there is no reason for anyone to make up bull**** like "it shoots it's self clean". There is a drawback to the twist lock system, as you mentioned it is heavy. I like my guns to have weight, it holds them on target, others prefer guns like the phantom so they can run faster. As with the anodizing issue in brass, if twist lock won't suit your needs then choose one of the many other options.
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Old 03-23-2008, 02:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by going_home View Post
On most twist lock barrels, the twist lock part is stainless steel.
Thus the big and clunky comment on my 1st post.
?? I have 6 different twist lock barrels of all different brands. Not a one of them is stainless. Actually I've seen aluminum twist locks far more often than I've seen SS ones so I don't find that point valid.

I know I like both threaded barrels for the convenience of availabiliy and twist locks for the rasons Cuhna mentioned - no seam in the breach, easy removal, I've just plain had better results with them.

I've gotta say though, I'm pretty biased on this as I'm a bit of a classic RT whore and twist locks are the only option I have there.

As for the brass issue....I've shot brass and I honestly never noticed a difference between them and aluminum or ss barrels. If you like the nice polished gold color then they are beatiful, it's not my style though.
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Old 03-23-2008, 03:31 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Just to add a bit more to the discussion:

I like powerfeed for agitating hoppers, AGD wasn't just hyping that it gave you an advantage at the time. Not only is there less blowback but, I get the feeling that half of the reason why mags had a reputation of shooting faster than cockers is that the powerfeed gave a huge stack of balls over breech. Think about a 96 cocker with an elbow vs a powerfeed left with an elbow, that is like 6 balls versus like 16.

Personally I like powerfeeds more than vertical, but not right feed. I have both. I kicked around the idea of getting a left powerfeed for my shocker, but I think right feed feels better.

Then again I feel Warp Feed is the best solution to the issue. I really like to sight over the top.

As for barrel materials, Brass does need maintenance, but if you use your marker, the bore ususaly remains rather bright. However aluminum is not a very good material for barrels. I do have several barrels where the anodizing has worn out unevenly, creating a rather crappy barrel. Reanodizing would change the bore size.

All of this has led me to prefer stainless as the best barrel type, I have 10 year old aluminum barrels that have wear on the anno, but my stainless barrels have none, they all still have a mirror finish. The only problem with it is that it work hardens pretty easily and makes it hard to get a good consistent bore size, but the way I see it that is all the manufacturers problem to deal with.
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Old 03-23-2008, 03:52 PM   #25 (permalink)
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I like the brass.

Specifically I like the Palmer Brass. Twist lock, clamp, or screw in, I have gotten the best results from Palmer Brass.

My opinion, and my opinion only, but I like 'em.
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Old 03-23-2008, 04:12 PM   #26 (permalink)
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i love the twist lock design and prefer it over anything else with a removable barrel. i like my standard power fed mag too and have no problem aiming it. i can sight down the left side right under the power feed with dead on one shot accuracy. i've never shot another power fed gun that i can claim that ease of sighting.
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Old 03-23-2008, 05:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Maintenance? What maintenance? What's wrong with a nice patina?

The only problem I have with twist locks is some of the used ones i've gotten the channel has worn down enough that the pin in the rail can't hold it in place anymore. When new, they seem great.

BTW, If you walk into a Biker bar and ask the guy next to, "What's the fascination with Motorcycles?". Don't be surprised if he laughs in your face (Right before they toss you out on your ***). If not the mecca of Palmerities, MCB is certainly a major temple. You probably won't get an answer that's "Sufficient".

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Old 03-23-2008, 06:41 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by going_home View Post
On most twist lock barrels, the twist lock part is stainless steel.
Thus the big and clunky comment on my 1st post.



Taken from PPS Brass Barrels - Paintball Palmer .

So far all I have seen is that. Opinion.
They dis sizing barrels to paint but I have found the smaller bore barrels ie .686 or .687 to have much better accuracy than the standard .690 or .691 .
And I have found barrel length has no effect on accuracy with smaller bores.
8" or 14" same difference . I prefer 8" or 10" and once in a while 12".

So PPS has an opinion like everyone else but no scientific data to prove they are right.

1) You cant anodize brass
2) It stands out shiny and bright like a sore thumb in woodsball
3) Its much heavier than anodized aluminum
4) It must be maintained or it will tarnish and most certainly effect shots like a dirty aluminum barrel

Opinions are like feet. Most people have them, and most of them stink.
But thats my opinion.

Based on the short thing from Glenn Palmer and basic logic, your experiences have only proven that the launch shape and valving of your guns prefer a tighter bore and nothing else about any other guns or general theory, everything else is conjecture on your part, including the fact that people are like feet!

They dis sizing barrels to paint based on experiments that Glenn Palmer and Tom Kaye, ColinThompson(Lapco?) and others did. I will respect Glenn's, Tom's and Colin's opinions because they weren't just idle speculators, they had real money and business survival riding on getting the right answers(and they survived!), but Tom Kaye is the one I'll seek info from regarding accuracy. The 'Palmer Swell' as I call their eliptical barrel profile has a great chance of cancelling spin because it 'frees' the ball slightly in it's center section and then traps it again with the funnel shape at the muzzle.
Removing spin is the only thing a paintball barrel can do to increase accuracy, period, all else is poo.

So when someone produces high speed images and glass barrels and testbed markers all blocked, bolted and climate controlled and gets data to DISPROVE what has ALREADY been proven about paint to barrel match being a pointless marketing device, I'll be happy to read their results, as I read Tom Kaye's in Deep Blue on AO.org. and decide.

As for brass...

I like brass. That would be enough. It's harder than aluminum and less likely to be damaged by accident or rough use. That would be enough. It can be made slicker than aluminum at the micro level. That would not be enough. being made slicker AND the polish lasting longer because it's a harder metal, that would be enough.

Rob
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Old 03-23-2008, 06:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
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It's harder than aluminum and less likely to be damaged by accident or rough use. That would be enough.
Isn't anodized aluminum harder than brass?
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Old 03-23-2008, 07:39 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Hmmm, then I would be left only with the first two sufficient answers. I'm satisfied but I will go find out which is harder, I hate getting stuff like that wrong-that's why I leave the science to Mr Kaye.

Rob
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