velocity

foldadoom · 05-02-2008, 05:05 AM

ok yuo are gonning to have to forgive my ignorance a mag is the one marker I have never owned.

My question is about the fix volume of the valve and how screwing the nut at the back changes velocity, does screwing in the nut push the FPS up? if so why? isnt the air space being reduced?

thanks in advance

FiXeL · 05-02-2008, 08:01 AM

Not really... The volume of the air chamber stays the same, but screwing in the nut at the back increases pressure. The back half of your valve is basicly a regulator that feeds the air chamber.

sdawg · 05-02-2008, 10:02 AM

A Level 7 mag operates like a cork on a bottle being popped off, except that there's a spring that pushes the cork back in after all the air vents out.

Turning in the rear nut increases the amount of pressure on the "cork" (bolt). Too little pressure, and the bolt doesn't overcome the spring. As the pressure gets higher, more force is enacted on the bolt and paintball, making the paintball travel out of the barrel at a higher velocity.

When the bolt is blown forward, a mechanism in the marker body called the "on/off" shuts off the air flowing from the regulator to the dump chamber. All the air in the dump chamber flows out and down the barrel until the spring returns the bolt and seals the dump chamber again. When the trigger is released, the on/off reopens and the dump chamber fills with air again.

So, basically, the amount of air released is very close to the same amount (maybe I'm wrong about this) regardless of the pressure you are using to fire the paintball. With poppet-style valved markers, such as the automags arch nemesis, the autococker, you can control both the pressure being released (via the inline regulator) and the amount of air released (by adjusting the force of the hammer hitting the valve). Modern electros, such as the Ion, also allow you to adjust "dwell," the amount of time the valve will stay open and release air to minimize air consumption.

Basically, when the paintball is already traveling down the barrel at its max velocity (~285FPS), any additional air is wasted. Because there is no way to adjust the amount of air (that I know of) released by the automag, you can't fine tune gas consumption, other than through such variables as paint-barrel match. Thus, the automag has a reputation as being less gas efficient than other markers.

Whew, did I type all that? I hope I was right about some of it.

If you want to know more, go find the excellent AutoMag training video on YouTube that I put up last year. Tom Kaye himself will explain everything that you'd ever want to know about the automag in the tiniest of detail. I wish every marker had the same kind of video.

Did I mention that my automag is my favorite marker?

MrJR · 05-02-2008, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdawg

A Level 7 mag operates like a cork on a bottle...

Whatever happened to the "Good post" smiley? Great info, sdawg.

sdawg · 05-02-2008, 12:26 PM

I should have just posted this animation:

The only thing missing from the animation is the return spring, which is on the front of the bolt and pushes against the marker's body.

I wish I could get this post to play the awesome late-80s jazz music that's in the automag training video while the first animation is playing.

foldadoom · 05-02-2008, 04:42 PM

thanks for that!!!! I assumed the nut worked directly on the "volume chamber" now I just have to translate this to the APS valve (as it basically a direct rip off of the AGD assembly)

sdawg · 05-02-2008, 04:59 PM

No problem. Now, go forth and spread your knowledge about the awesomeness that is ... the AUTOMAG!!!11oneone

foldadoom · 05-03-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdawg

No problem. Now, go forth and spread your knowledge about the awesomeness that is ... the AUTOMAG!!!11oneone

LOL you would think after 25 years of play I would have owned one, (I think the l5 ones I saw totally put me off) have got a lead on a splash anno (purple and blue I think) with a magic box matched frame/barrel/and forgrip for around$100.....will keep you posted.

secretweaponevan · 05-05-2008, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sdawg

I wish I could get this post to play the awesome late-80s jazz music that's in the automag training video while the first animation is playing.

I'm pretty sure it is a muzak'd "The way it is" by Bruce Hornsby.
Here is the song on youtube => YouTube - The Way It Is Bruce Hornsby- Ben's Life Pics

I'd always mildly freak out when I'd hear the song in a bowling alley or whatever.

05-02-2008, 05:05 AM	#1 (permalink)
foldadoom Active Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 254	velocity ok yuo are gonning to have to forgive my ignorance a mag is the one marker I have never owned. My question is about the fix volume of the valve and how screwing the nut at the back changes velocity, does screwing in the nut push the FPS up? if so why? isnt the air space being reduced? thanks in advance

05-02-2008, 08:01 AM	#2 (permalink)
FiXeL Rec Poster Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Dokkum, The Netherlands Posts: 95	Not really... The volume of the air chamber stays the same, but screwing in the nut at the back increases pressure. The back half of your valve is basicly a regulator that feeds the air chamber. __________________ Yes! I love being in battle! I love the moment when my marker stops being a machine and becomes part of me! My blood boils and my mind goes all white! It's an incredible high! There's no time to think, only action!

05-02-2008, 10:02 AM	#3 (permalink)
sdawg MCB Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,409	A Level 7 mag operates like a cork on a bottle being popped off, except that there's a spring that pushes the cork back in after all the air vents out. Turning in the rear nut increases the amount of pressure on the "cork" (bolt). Too little pressure, and the bolt doesn't overcome the spring. As the pressure gets higher, more force is enacted on the bolt and paintball, making the paintball travel out of the barrel at a higher velocity. When the bolt is blown forward, a mechanism in the marker body called the "on/off" shuts off the air flowing from the regulator to the dump chamber. All the air in the dump chamber flows out and down the barrel until the spring returns the bolt and seals the dump chamber again. When the trigger is released, the on/off reopens and the dump chamber fills with air again. So, basically, the amount of air released is very close to the same amount (maybe I'm wrong about this) regardless of the pressure you are using to fire the paintball. With poppet-style valved markers, such as the automags arch nemesis, the autococker, you can control both the pressure being released (via the inline regulator) and the amount of air released (by adjusting the force of the hammer hitting the valve). Modern electros, such as the Ion, also allow you to adjust "dwell," the amount of time the valve will stay open and release air to minimize air consumption. Basically, when the paintball is already traveling down the barrel at its max velocity (~285FPS), any additional air is wasted. Because there is no way to adjust the amount of air (that I know of) released by the automag, you can't fine tune gas consumption, other than through such variables as paint-barrel match. Thus, the automag has a reputation as being less gas efficient than other markers. Whew, did I type all that? I hope I was right about some of it. If you want to know more, go find the excellent AutoMag training video on YouTube that I put up last year. Tom Kaye himself will explain everything that you'd ever want to know about the automag in the tiniest of detail. I wish every marker had the same kind of video. Did I mention that my automag is my favorite marker? __________________ Everybody: Let's ease up on the red loctite, 'kay? Thanks. Feedback

05-02-2008, 12:26 PM	#5 (permalink)
sdawg MCB Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,409	I should have just posted this animation: The only thing missing from the animation is the return spring, which is on the front of the bolt and pushes against the marker's body. I wish I could get this post to play the awesome late-80s jazz music that's in the automag training video while the first animation is playing. __________________ Everybody: Let's ease up on the red loctite, 'kay? Thanks. Feedback

05-02-2008, 04:59 PM	#7 (permalink)
sdawg MCB Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas Posts: 1,409	No problem. Now, go forth and spread your knowledge about the awesomeness that is ... the AUTOMAG!!!11oneone __________________ Everybody: Let's ease up on the red loctite, 'kay? Thanks. Feedback

05-02-2008, 04:42 PM	#6 (permalink)
foldadoom Active Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 254	thanks for that!!!! I assumed the nut worked directly on the "volume chamber" now I just have to translate this to the APS valve (as it basically a direct rip off of the AGD assembly)

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