Paintball

[Clearush]

when you say "cycles reliably" does that mean with the pressure turned down some of the shots give you a pfffffft click sound?? If so definate on the spring the pffffft click sound is of the the bolt going far enough foward to release pressure from the anti-chop vent but not having enough foward momentum to over come the spring pressure.

This tends to be a combination of the carrier oring dragging and the spring being to stiff for the pressure. Once your carrier has worn in a bit a longer spring should be possible to use. The problem is shorter springs lessen the lvl 10 effect as the force of the spring is part of the system that keeps the bolt pressure from chopping paint.


From AO -
"Start with the longest mainspring (9) from the LVL10 kit, assemble the valve with it and gas the marker up. Try firing, if it doesn’t fire, turn up the velocity until it does. Turning up the velocity is normal for Level 10 tuning it does not mean anything is wrong. If the marker starts venting out the back or the velocity is too high when it does start firing then the main spring is too long. "

[MondoMor]

The "pfft-click" is what happens when I lower the pressure. The carrier is as good as I can make it; it's a tiny bit tighter than I think it should be, but the o-ring is new and I guess it will loosen up. I would try the next-larger carrier, but of course that one is missing.

Sometimes after a pfft-click, the bolt actually has to be pushed back by finger, and it requires some decent force. I'm not running any shims, which apparently eliminate this problem... but I can't see why they would. It seems to me that shims make the bolt switch sooner from the slow-moving anti-chop to normal speed, but bolt reset looks entirely controlled by the sear and mainspring.

I burned through an entire 68/45 trying to track down leaks (leaving the shims out sped up re-assembly), so I've got to wait a couple of days to dig in again.

[MondoMor]

New "brown" L10 spring, hp reg piston, some other bits on their way from AGD.

What a horrible introduction to Automag ownership.


Is there a cheat sheet on the different bolt springs available? Are they just different lengths, or are they different strengths as well? What does the "FN" in the "FN bolt spring" stand for?

[Clearush]

all bolt springs on mags are made of the same square wire and effectivly have the same strength new, they just come in different lengths to change the strenth.

Sometimes saving an automag from a retarded owner can be satisfying.

[MondoMor]

It fires paintballs!

I cut about 2/3 of a coil off one of my yellow springs and found a better oring/carrier combo. No more pfft/click.

I managed to get upwards of 170 fps out of it, but the reg overpressure was venting the whole time. I burned through about 2000 psi with a couple dozen paintballs, but it worked. I think the L10 kicked in too, since I was feeding it from a pocket hopper.

A new shim in my 68/45 ought to give me ~900psi out, and if the new 'mag reg piston arrives by Thursday, I may try to play with it this coming weekend.

Thanks, guys!

[MondoMor]

Finally played with it this past weekend.

I'm so used to electros I had to concentrate to not short-stroke it.

But even after I got over the short-stroking, the first shot after a long pause always chuffed. The next shot was normal (but with two balls), and the third was normal. If I let it sit for a while, the first shot would chuff again.

Since this was a woodsball game, I didn't have the time to pull out the L10 parts and find the problem, so I went back to my trusty cocker.

I also had some really weird barrel breaks; balls were breaking within the last 1" of the barrel, though it's perfectly smooth. It's a Dye barrel of some sort. There was no problem with breaks anywhere else but the barrel tip; and since I had a little trouble getting my loader to work right, the L10 is definitely doing its thing.


To cure the first-shot chuff:

Is this related to the shoot-up phenomenon? Something like: the air charge cools down and loses pressure, so the first shot after a pause is weak. The next shots get the benefit of heat, and are therefore able to operate the L10 properly. Right?

[Nobody]

replace the on/off orings. you are losing pressure in the dump chamber, causing the missed first shot.

i don't think you know what the L10 is. its an anti-chop system, and has nothing to do with input pressures. take a pen cap or something small enough to be placed in the breech, but nothing to strong to damage the bolt or body. fire the Mag while aired up. if the bolt bounces off and returns to the firing position, then the L10 is tuned and there is no need to mess with it.

[MondoMor]

Hmm. The on/off rings are new, but I'll try the old ones (and plenty of oil) too.

I do understand what L10 is, I just write poorly.

What I was trying to say was that since my loader was feeding poorly yet I had no chopped balls, the L10 anti-chop feature must have been working properly.

I was also trying to explain the chuff to myself. My thinking was this:

With a cool charge, the forward pressure on the L10 bolt stem would be less than with a "hot" charge. Higher pressure would move the bolt forward quickly enough that the vent wouldn't let too much pressure out. It could complete a full cycle. On the cool charge, the bolt moved forward slightly slower and the vent allowed too much pressure drop. This caused the bolt to stall and "chuff" (short-stroke).

I could be wrong; this is how I interpret the "shoot-up" phenomenon, and that I'm right on the hairy edge or normal operation.

From what I've read, my carrier/o-ring combo is still too tight, I need even more oil, or I should try it without shims.

[secretweaponevan]

Originally Posted by MondoMor

Hmm. The on/off rings are new, but I'll try the old ones (and plenty of oil) too.

I do understand what L10 is, I just write poorly.

What I was trying to say was that since my loader was feeding poorly yet I had no chopped balls, the L10 anti-chop feature must have been working properly.

I was also trying to explain the chuff to myself. My thinking was this:

With a cool charge, the forward pressure on the L10 bolt stem would be less than with a "hot" charge. Higher pressure would move the bolt forward quickly enough that the vent wouldn't let too much pressure out. It could complete a full cycle. On the cool charge, the bolt moved forward slightly slower and the vent allowed too much pressure drop. This caused the bolt to stall and "chuff" (short-stroke).

I could be wrong; this is how I interpret the "shoot-up" phenomenon, and that I'm right on the hairy edge or normal operation.

From what I've read, my carrier/o-ring combo is still too tight, I need even more oil, or I should try it without shims.

Level 10 is amazing once you ger her tuned. Here is a no nonsense tuning guide. She will chuff if she isn't lubed or she has too tight a carrier:

Remove all LVL 10 shims.
Pick 1 carrier o-ring and stick with it.
Use oil.
Use #2 carrier (2 lines, no dots).
Shoot 1000 shots to break in o-ring.
Move broken-in o-ring to largest carrier that doesn't leak.
Use red spring for 285 fps.
If bolt sticks after encountering a jam, add a shim.

[Nobody]

damn, if you where anywhere near me, i would be glad to tune this for you. hell, if you would want, send it to me(i'll pay both ways) and i'll make sure that its shooting perfect for you. there are a lot of little things that can go wrong on a mag. one gun that i fixed over email had the trigger rod messed up. that took a bit of thinking to get that one fixed. but i'm not ready to give up yet.
remember, Mags like pressure. so a warm bottle is good. 700psi is a good round number on the pressure, so that's about half the problem there, as you've already found out. now, have you thought about, or can you get HPA? HPA fixes a lot of issues with mags. its cleaner(unscrew the velocity adjuster out of the reg, if its covered in carbon, then the user shot co2 with it), no worries on the pressure variances with co2, easier to use(IMO), but that's just me. you can make a Mag sing on co2 but it takes some understanding as well as effort to get the right balance for the gun.

whats a "cool charge" and "hot charge"? is that a fresh fill versus an old fill?

the L10, shouldn't need to be heavily oiled. play around with the carriers and shims to get it to the point of it firing with no problems as well as not "hissing" either at the ready to fire or in its return cycle. the above "tuning" method should work. you can then tune it for either a low break point(so that you may shoot the brittlest of paints, but your efficiency suffers) or a high break point(its a little harder on the paint, but its a balance of anti-chop and efficiency).