oh mighty AGD gods

foldadoom · 06-09-2008, 04:49 PM

ok I am new to mags (not to paintball) in fact I always hated them and that was the reason for never using one, but I may have seen the light.
But there is a big whole in the knowlodge banks, can some please tell me the difference between.

ULE frames and lets say a normal frame?
x valve vs 7 or 10 (10 is just antichop?)
what valve will not run on co2 (well?)
what should I look for in a 2nd hand barrel or gun ?
are the parts interchangable ie can I slap a L10 or x valve on a classic body?
ptp bodys you have to use what barrels?

cheers Grant

Mayvik · 06-09-2008, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by foldadoom

ULE frames and lets say a normal frame?
x valve vs 7 or 10 (10 is just antichop?)
what valve will not run on co2 (well?)
what should I look for in a 2nd hand barrel or gun ?
are the parts interchangable ie can I slap a L10 or x valve on a classic body?
ptp bodys you have to use what barrels?

1) Depends on what you mean by Normal frame, but ULE anything are parts that are just machined more to be lighter. There might be an ergonomic advantage to using a ULE frame, or there might not, it's personal preference. The "classic" frames are single trigger unless you cut the guard and put on a shoe though, if that helps. There are plenty of aftermarket frames out there as well.

2) X-Valve is a valve, level 7/10 are bolts. The level 10 bolt is mechanical anti-chop, and will work with any valve just by swapping out the bolt.

3) Newer valves (like the X-Valve) don't like CO2. Welcome to Airgun Designs has a list I believe.

4)a. Second hand barrel will depend on what sort of body you've got; some bodies take twist-lock barrels (classic, minimag), newer bodies (ULE, micromag) take cocker threaded barrels. There are adapters available to use threaded barrels on twist-lock. To jump ahead, PTP bodies (except unibodies) take cocker threaded barrels
b. Second hand gun is pretty much the same you'd look at on any other gun, overall condition, extras, etc. Aside from the valve (and bolt) there's not a whole lot going on with a mag, and it's pretty hard to screw up a valve unless you're really going out of your way.

5) For the most part, valves and bolts are fully interchangeable as units, but individual pieces of each may not be swappable (i.e. taking a 68 automag regulator and putting it on an X-valve on-off). Older RTs have some weirdness because they have a gas-through rail.

There's a 9 part AGD automag maintenance video up on You Tube that I recommend you check out, it's especially for older classic mags but much of the underlying info is the same. Plus you get to check out Tom Kaye's sweet 80's moustache

Also, AGD's website (Welcome to Airgun Designs) has lots of useful info, especially about newer upgrades like the X-valve, level 10 and ULT.

Edit: It would help some if you can give an idea of what you're looking for in a mag. Is it going to be your primary, or are you looking for a solid backup/loaner? Do you need to use CO2? How much are you looking to spend? Are you considering an E/X-mag or a pneumag?

Zoo · 06-09-2008, 05:13 PM

Edit: Mayvik types too darn fast.

The only thing I would add to his post is that a Classic valve that is stamped "Rental" won't accept the Level 10 bolt without first boring out the powertube.

Note to self: need to learn touch typing.

Cunha · 06-09-2008, 05:14 PM

[quote=foldadoom;421532]ok I am new to mags (not to paintball) in fact I always hated them and that was the reason for never using one, but I may have seen the light.
But there is a big whole in the knowlodge banks, can some please tell me the difference between.

ULE frames and lets say a normal frame? - There are Intelliframes, and a variety of other aluminum automag 2 finger trigger frames. There are ULE I frames made by RPG available at themagsmith.com and from rogue directly. They are milled out internally so their weight is reduced fairly significantly. Normal I frames are plenty light though.

x valve vs 7 or 10 (10 is just antichop?) - X valve is an entire valve assembly. There are X valves, RT pro valves, Emag valves, Retro valves. All of them work the same exact way, but only the X valve is completely aluminum. There are also classic valves and AIR valves which are both exactly the same, solid stainless construction. RT valves can shoot faster, and also have "shoot up" as a consequence of their hyperfast recharge rate. Classic valves cant use a ULT on/off assembly correctly, so their trigger pull cant be as light as an X / RT valve without being a "pneumag"

The ULT on off is simply a different piece that allows the trigger on an RT valved gun to be less reactive but lighter. Its a good piece.

what valve will not run on co2 (well?) All RT valves will not run on co2 -at all- which means the X valve, RT pro valve, RT valve (which only works in old RT's which are incompatible with everything) retro valve, and Emag valve. These are all RT valves and none will work on co2.

The Classic valve works on co2, but not too well, they freeze up and start to leak. Also, co2 in the dump chamber can heat up and cause hot shots. With compressed air they are incredibly consistent and accurate guns. AGD pioneered the use of HPA, for good reason..their design ended up working a lot better with it.

what should I look for in a 2nd hand barrel or gun ? It depends if you want to spend a lot of money or not. You can get a classic mag with a stainless twist lock body and a decent barrel for about 100 dollars. It will be accurate, and somewhat hefty. They are fantastic guns. Not the fastest trigger pull.

Otherwise get a gun that looks good, if you want a ULT get it with the gun because it is 50 bucks otherwise. Also only buy one that includes spare parts because they arent cheap either if you need to buy them on your own.

Its up to you. The more you know about them, the more happy you will be with your choice. The best deal is to buy a brand new one from AGD which includes a good rail, a good body, a good frame, all brand new with all of the tuning parts. It is a bargain if you want a modern lightweight one. I'd buy new if I wanted an X valved gun.

are the parts interchangable ie can I slap a L10 or x valve on a classic body?
ptp bodys you have to use what barrels? Level 10 is the AGD anti chop bolt. A well tuned one is physically incapable of chopping paint. The level 10 is compatible with ALL automags, including old RT's, X valves, Classic valves...all of them.

Level 7 is the previous generation standard bolt. It will chop your finger off. It is a good bolt though and alot of people like it for ease of use (never needs tuning..its cheaper, and slightly more efficient)

Good luck.

drg · 06-09-2008, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayvik

2) X-Valve is a valve, level 7/10 are bolts. The level 10 bolt is mechanical anti-chop, and will work with any valve just by swapping out the bolt.

Bolt and power tube tip/internals ...

aqua_scummm · 06-09-2008, 05:14 PM

Anything ULE = Ultra light engineering. Just lighter weight. There is one exception, the ULE trigger kit, often called the ULT, makes the trigger a lighter weight pull, not making the marker's overall weight lower like everything else

Level 7 = standard full force bolt. Comes in a hardnose version, and a soft foam nose version that requires replacing the foam tip every once in awhile. Level 7 bolts can also be replaced with aftermarket bolts from ANS and others, often to no increase in performance.

Level 10 = anti chop bolt.

Xvalve = all aluminum HPA only valve with an RT effect, that includes a level 10. Other RT valves were stainless steel, or part SS part Aluminum, and came with level 7 bolts. Any valve can be upgraded to a level 10 kit.

Automag RTs, RT Pros, ReTro, Xvalve, emag, and I THINK some micromag valves are HPA only. Basically anything with the RT effect is HPA only. 68 Automag, minimag, some Micromag, and anything "Classic" will be CO2 compatible.

Barrels, see if the bore is good, as always. Ask if it comes with the O-rings and nubbins (cheap parts if it doesn't), make sure it works with your feed. So left standard feed is the same as hopper right powerfeed, and vice-versa. Centerfeed is a category of it's own. If you're using cocker threaded barrels/bodies, ignore the above and use anything.

Ask if it's leaking or has any issues.

excepting the original automag RT, most things are cross compatible. Most. Valves can go in any body. Any body and any valve (except original automag RT) can go on any rail (except PTP bodies which don't use rails). Any gripframe can work with any rail (except some hyperframes). Foregrips and vertical adapters are a little iffy, cross that bridge when you get there.

PTP bodies are either cocker threaded or fixed barrel.

My suggestion? Just buy a working mag. If you need CO2, buy a classic mag for $150. Things make a lot more sense once you see in person what we're talking about

Cunha · 06-09-2008, 06:42 PM

A lot of aluminum frames made for the classic rail need to be modified to fit flat rails like emag rails and RT rails. Classic rails have sort of a built in dovetail on the left and right sides, and the trigger frames were often machined to use that for centering. RT rails are completely flat, so are Emag rails.

Most things are compatible. Classic mag bodies wont work in RT rails because they have a squared piece that is made to take the front trigger frame screw. This will get in the way since emag and rt rails have a circle piece, the classic mag is square and bigger.

Micromag valves will be labled micromag or micromag RT or something like that. Anything RT is HPA only.

Mags are better on HPA and even valves that work with co2 are better with HPA and i'd highly recommend using HPA.

06-09-2008, 04:49 PM	#1 (permalink)
foldadoom Active Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 268	oh mighty AGD gods ok I am new to mags (not to paintball) in fact I always hated them and that was the reason for never using one, but I may have seen the light. But there is a big whole in the knowlodge banks, can some please tell me the difference between. ULE frames and lets say a normal frame? x valve vs 7 or 10 (10 is just antichop?) what valve will not run on co2 (well?) what should I look for in a 2nd hand barrel or gun ? are the parts interchangable ie can I slap a L10 or x valve on a classic body? ptp bodys you have to use what barrels? cheers Grant

06-09-2008, 05:13 PM	#3 (permalink)
Zoo formerly guseppe16 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Buckeyes' HQ Posts: 428	Edit: Mayvik types too darn fast. The only thing I would add to his post is that a Classic valve that is stamped "Rental" won't accept the Level 10 bolt without first boring out the powertube. Note to self: need to learn touch typing. __________________ www.DeltaSquad.info Either an inflatable bunker or a tree, both work for me. Last edited by Zoo; 06-09-2008 at 05:18 PM.

06-09-2008, 05:14 PM	#4 (permalink)
Cunha MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 4,256	[quote=foldadoom;421532]ok I am new to mags (not to paintball) in fact I always hated them and that was the reason for never using one, but I may have seen the light. But there is a big whole in the knowlodge banks, can some please tell me the difference between. ULE frames and lets say a normal frame? - There are Intelliframes, and a variety of other aluminum automag 2 finger trigger frames. There are ULE I frames made by RPG available at themagsmith.com and from rogue directly. They are milled out internally so their weight is reduced fairly significantly. Normal I frames are plenty light though. x valve vs 7 or 10 (10 is just antichop?) - X valve is an entire valve assembly. There are X valves, RT pro valves, Emag valves, Retro valves. All of them work the same exact way, but only the X valve is completely aluminum. There are also classic valves and AIR valves which are both exactly the same, solid stainless construction. RT valves can shoot faster, and also have "shoot up" as a consequence of their hyperfast recharge rate. Classic valves cant use a ULT on/off assembly correctly, so their trigger pull cant be as light as an X / RT valve without being a "pneumag" The ULT on off is simply a different piece that allows the trigger on an RT valved gun to be less reactive but lighter. Its a good piece. what valve will not run on co2 (well?) All RT valves will not run on co2 -at all- which means the X valve, RT pro valve, RT valve (which only works in old RT's which are incompatible with everything) retro valve, and Emag valve. These are all RT valves and none will work on co2. The Classic valve works on co2, but not too well, they freeze up and start to leak. Also, co2 in the dump chamber can heat up and cause hot shots. With compressed air they are incredibly consistent and accurate guns. AGD pioneered the use of HPA, for good reason..their design ended up working a lot better with it. what should I look for in a 2nd hand barrel or gun ? It depends if you want to spend a lot of money or not. You can get a classic mag with a stainless twist lock body and a decent barrel for about 100 dollars. It will be accurate, and somewhat hefty. They are fantastic guns. Not the fastest trigger pull. Otherwise get a gun that looks good, if you want a ULT get it with the gun because it is 50 bucks otherwise. Also only buy one that includes spare parts because they arent cheap either if you need to buy them on your own. Its up to you. The more you know about them, the more happy you will be with your choice. The best deal is to buy a brand new one from AGD which includes a good rail, a good body, a good frame, all brand new with all of the tuning parts. It is a bargain if you want a modern lightweight one. I'd buy new if I wanted an X valved gun. are the parts interchangable ie can I slap a L10 or x valve on a classic body? ptp bodys you have to use what barrels? Level 10 is the AGD anti chop bolt. A well tuned one is physically incapable of chopping paint. The level 10 is compatible with ALL automags, including old RT's, X valves, Classic valves...all of them. Level 7 is the previous generation standard bolt. It will chop your finger off. It is a good bolt though and alot of people like it for ease of use (never needs tuning..its cheaper, and slightly more efficient) Good luck. __________________ If you're not moving, there is no movement. Some small things for sale.

06-09-2008, 05:14 PM	#6 (permalink)
aqua_scummm MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,417	Anything ULE = Ultra light engineering. Just lighter weight. There is one exception, the ULE trigger kit, often called the ULT, makes the trigger a lighter weight pull, not making the marker's overall weight lower like everything else Level 7 = standard full force bolt. Comes in a hardnose version, and a soft foam nose version that requires replacing the foam tip every once in awhile. Level 7 bolts can also be replaced with aftermarket bolts from ANS and others, often to no increase in performance. Level 10 = anti chop bolt. Xvalve = all aluminum HPA only valve with an RT effect, that includes a level 10. Other RT valves were stainless steel, or part SS part Aluminum, and came with level 7 bolts. Any valve can be upgraded to a level 10 kit. Automag RTs, RT Pros, ReTro, Xvalve, emag, and I THINK some micromag valves are HPA only. Basically anything with the RT effect is HPA only. 68 Automag, minimag, some Micromag, and anything "Classic" will be CO2 compatible. Barrels, see if the bore is good, as always. Ask if it comes with the O-rings and nubbins (cheap parts if it doesn't), make sure it works with your feed. So left standard feed is the same as hopper right powerfeed, and vice-versa. Centerfeed is a category of it's own. If you're using cocker threaded barrels/bodies, ignore the above and use anything. Ask if it's leaking or has any issues. excepting the original automag RT, most things are cross compatible. Most. Valves can go in any body. Any body and any valve (except original automag RT) can go on any rail (except PTP bodies which don't use rails). Any gripframe can work with any rail (except some hyperframes). Foregrips and vertical adapters are a little iffy, cross that bridge when you get there. PTP bodies are either cocker threaded or fixed barrel. My suggestion? Just buy a working mag. If you need CO2, buy a classic mag for $150. Things make a lot more sense once you see in person what we're talking about __________________ My choice is what I chose to do, and if I'm causin' no harm, it shouldn't bother you. Your choice is who you chose to be, and if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me.

06-09-2008, 06:42 PM	#7 (permalink)
Cunha MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Monterey, CA Posts: 4,256	A lot of aluminum frames made for the classic rail need to be modified to fit flat rails like emag rails and RT rails. Classic rails have sort of a built in dovetail on the left and right sides, and the trigger frames were often machined to use that for centering. RT rails are completely flat, so are Emag rails. Most things are compatible. Classic mag bodies wont work in RT rails because they have a squared piece that is made to take the front trigger frame screw. This will get in the way since emag and rt rails have a circle piece, the classic mag is square and bigger. Micromag valves will be labled micromag or micromag RT or something like that. Anything RT is HPA only. Mags are better on HPA and even valves that work with co2 are better with HPA and i'd highly recommend using HPA. __________________ If you're not moving, there is no movement. Some small things for sale.

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search