Paintball

[Cunha]

I copied this post I made from the AGD forum when I realized MCB is the best website ever and gets responses faster 100 percent of the time...

I remember reading that if you run lower input pressures to your X valve - 600-700, you can get close to eliminating the reactive trigger and also that the valve will behave much like a classic valve.

Does anyone know if running 600 or so input will actually make the X valve chrono normally?

I cant stand shoot up, and use a classic valve instead in order to avoid it, but I am curious if this is a solution to shootup..with the drawback that the RT will be weakened.

Anyone know how it would change the ULT? Maybe the ULT would need to be tuned differently..or it wouldnt work right at all like in a classic?

Hopefully some knowledgeable dudes are cruising around. Thanks a lot.

please do not post here telling me that the shootup isnt that bad.. I know what I like and hate.

Thanks guys

[Clearush]

If you can get it to fire in the first place with that kind've input, you should be able to chrono reasonably. I think the real problem will come from the lvl X needing a higher pressure to reliably fire. You should be able to mess with the length of the main spring to fix that, but you may loose some of the anti-chop ability of the lvl 10 bolt when doing that.

As for fixing shoot up errr may or maynot. I wish I could give you a better answer, but I've never had the issue of shoot up so maybe someone with more x-valve experiance can answer your better.

[going_home]

Originally Posted by Clearush

If you can get it to fire in the first place with that kind've input, you should be able to chrono reasonably. I think the real problem will come from the lvl X needing a higher pressure to reliably fire. You should be able to mess with the length of the main spring to fix that, but you may loose some of the anti-chop ability of the lvl 10 bolt when doing that.

As for fixing shoot up errr may or maynot. I wish I could give you a better answer, but I've never had the issue of shoot up so maybe someone with more x-valve experiance can answer your better.

I think he is trying to eliminate bounce by lowering the input psi .
That is a tough one. Depending on rate of fire you may find you are starving
the valve turning the input psi down causing chuffing and coughing during
rapid fire maneuvers.

[Cunha]

The valve states that it works 600-800 psi and does not reccomend the hyper RT inputs people like, probably because of absurd amts of shootup at those input pressures.

It states somewhere that it behaves like a classic valve at 600-700 psi range.

I figure I am better off with my classic valve and aluminum reg body..its not much heavier and it is ball on ball consistent.

I dont care about the RT effect much.. Id use ULT and it wouldnt be significant anyways. It is the shootup I cant stand. I need my first shot to go where it needs to..not my 3rd.

[Nobody]

yes, the imput pressure will affect the "reactiveness" of the trigger. o, the ULT trigger will worsen this, as it will make the trigger easier to pull, thus resulting in a higher rate of fire, which is what you are trying to avoid.

now, shoot up? what exactly are you talking about? is it the velocity as you chrono it goes from 300fps to 350 and you can't turn it down? if you are getting spikes in the chronograph and can't seem to chrono it down to the field limit, then cleam the reg buffer as well as all the orings. the valve is very sensitive to dirt and will cause crazy readings. this has nothing to do with the input pressure.

what is your setup? if you are getting bounces, then switch to a single trigger instead of a double. you can also use a revy instead of a more capable loader, as the gun will only send down as much paint as its feed. by limiting the paint and how quickly it feeds, you won't be blasting your paint away.

but what is confusing me here is that you want the X valve, but don't want the benefits of it. there is a slight difference in weight, but not enough to notice. the L10 kit can be used on a classic valve, so there is no difference there. so if you are having these problems and have gone back to a classic valve, why even bother with an X valve, when you are happier with the older one?

[ta2maki]

Originally Posted by Cunha

The valve states that it works 600-800 psi and does not reccomend the hyper RT inputs people like, probably because of absurd amts of shootup at those input pressures.

It states somewhere that it behaves like a classic valve at 600-700 psi range.

I figure I am better off with my classic valve and aluminum reg body..its not much heavier and it is ball on ball consistent.

I dont care about the RT effect much.. Id use ULT and it wouldnt be significant anyways. It is the shootup I cant stand. I need my first shot to go where it needs to..not my 3rd.

The high input pressure is not recommended because when the mag is set to bounce, the hammering action places stress on the on/off and sear. Thus causing accelerated wear.

If you go with a really low input pressure and ult, you may end up with the trigger not consistantly resetting.

[russc]

According to Zak Vetter, the only wear associated with excessive reactivity is caused by the amount of cycles, not because the parts are doing anything differently, but rather simply because they are doing it more. If you shot at half speed for twice as long, it would result in the same wear.

[Duzzy]

By shoot up I think he is referring to the first shot which is usually "hot", hence the abnormal chronoing procedure.

[Cunha]

I am talking about when the first shot is 257, second is 262 third is 271 and the fourth fifth and sixth up to infinity are 280 FPS.

I dont mind the RT of the standard X valve running 800 psi with a ULT or without..its fine to me either way.

Airgun Designs - Automag RT Chronograph Procedure

Notice that the velocity raises more before it plateaus the higher the input pressure. Notice that the velocity is consistent at lower input pressures and they state that it behaves like a classic valve.

I was wondering if the low input pressure is actually completely standard consistency like a classic mag, or only closer.

The relationship between input pressure and shootup also made me think that AGD might not recomend extra high (above 800) input pressures because of excessive shootup, in addition to what could be considered run away firing.

Just some thoughts. If you have an RT valve and dont know what shootup is..yikes! Definitely read that link. Even if you dont own an RT it is a good read anyways. The RT valve really is a high performance design and Tom compares it to a high performance racing engine that doesnt drive well on the street. It works best when it is running at peak output. As a double tap shooter, the classic valve may be the gun for me. If I ever get an X valve for whatever reason I wll be sure to test it on lower inputs.

[BigEvil]

Lower input will help. Run it at 800-850 psi, and use a longer on/off pin.

Longer on off pin = less reactivity
Shorter = more


The gun should chrono very consistent at that input. If not, a rebuild may be in order. Specifically, both valve springs and the orings on the reg pin for starters.