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Old 04-12-2008, 09:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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help me!! open bolt/closed bolt theory

i am sure this is kind of like the eternal debate here, like the chicken or the egg was first, but some of you aka fans could really help to stifle the ongoing arguments.

correct me if i am wrong, but the viking and excals were almost identical in design with the exception that one was open bolt, and the other was closed at the time of firing.

heck, if i remember correctly, i think that the marketing was geared at saying the viking was capable of a higher rof because of its open bolt function, but the excal was being marketed as a slower, but more accurate marker.

i have noticed that there are alot of gentlemen here who are collectors of both of these lines of markers, therefore you guys could pretty much prove this debate with a little scientific method (if the markers are identical in valves, firing pressure, etc.).

any thoughts to this?

or general feeling as to which marker is more accurate?

please excuse me for bringing this up if this has already been beaten to death here.
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Old 04-13-2008, 12:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by daniam View Post
i am sure this is kind of like the eternal debate here, like the chicken or the egg was first, but some of you aka fans could really help to stifle the ongoing arguments.

correct me if i am wrong, but the viking and excals were almost identical in design with the exception that one was open bolt, and the other was closed at the time of firing.

heck, if i remember correctly, i think that the marketing was geared at saying the viking was capable of a higher rof because of its open bolt function, but the excal was being marketed as a slower, but more accurate marker.

i have noticed that there are alot of gentlemen here who are collectors of both of these lines of markers, therefore you guys could pretty much prove this debate with a little scientific method (if the markers are identical in valves, firing pressure, etc.).

any thoughts to this?

or general feeling as to which marker is more accurate?

please excuse me for bringing this up if this has already been beaten to death here.
Well basically the Viking and the Excal basically share the same body, although after milling and creation of the airholes, they are not interchangeable. The Excal was designed first and the Viking was basically a by-product of the RD. Accuracy is a subjective term and will always be open to debate due to the large amounts of variables that are involved. The Viking is indeed capable of cycling much faster than the Excal due to the open bolt design. The Excal feels smoother because it is heavier and it seems like the 2 rams seem to counter each other while cycling resulting in smoother firing cycle. As far as actual kills per rounds fired, I get a much higher ratio with the excal due to the simple fact that it doe not fire as fast. I can skull you with either marker so that doesn't really matter to me. WHat matters is your personal preference. Do you want a lighter, faster marker that will easily keep up or outpace the crap that is being made today or due you prefer a closed bolt marker with a smoother feel to it? Using the scientific method to prove what I have said is basically a waste of time unless you want to provide a controlled environment, lots of paint, and someone who has a lot of time on their hands to calculate and interpret the data. Then you would have to repeat the results in several different environments to see if the results can be replicated even if things like the barometric pressure and temperature are different. A true gunwhore can kill you just the same with his Blazer or his Viking Personally I lean toward the VIking because you can mill it into prettier shapes
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well said Himurax13

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Old 04-13-2008, 07:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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well if they are not identical markers then it wouldn't work, so the horse already got shot before the race started.

i just ASSumed that they were identical because of all the excals that i have seen in person looked very much alike the pics of vikings.
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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well if they are not identical markers then it wouldn't work, so the horse already got shot before the race started.

i just ASSumed that they were identical because of all the excals that i have seen in person looked very much alike the pics of vikings.
They are not identical but they do share many parts and are somewhat similar in design. Here is an 02 Excal and an 03 Viking

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Old 04-13-2008, 12:18 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Are you sure that would work?
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:56 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Well basically the Viking and the Excal basically share the same body, although after milling and creation of the airholes, they are not interchangeable. The Excal was designed first and the Viking was basically a by-product of the RD. Accuracy is a subjective term and will always be open to debate due to the large amounts of variables that are involved. The Viking is indeed capable of cycling much faster than the Excal due to the open bolt design. The Excal feels smoother because it is heavier and it seems like the 2 rams seem to counter each other while cycling resulting in smoother firing cycle. As far as actual kills per rounds fired, I get a much higher ratio with the excal due to the simple fact that it doe not fire as fast. I can skull you with either marker so that doesn't really matter to me. WHat matters is your personal preference. Do you want a lighter, faster marker that will easily keep up or outpace the crap that is being made today or due you prefer a closed bolt marker with a smoother feel to it? Using the scientific method to prove what I have said is basically a waste of time unless you want to provide a controlled environment, lots of paint, and someone who has a lot of time on their hands to calculate and interpret the data. Then you would have to repeat the results in several different environments to see if the results can be replicated even if things like the barometric pressure and temperature are different. A true gunwhore can kill you just the same with his Blazer or his Viking Personally I lean toward the VIking because you can mill it into prettier shapes

Spoken like a true gunwhore.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Spoken like a true gunwhore.
I prefer Versatile Enthusiast
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:27 AM   #9 (permalink)
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People have done study, after study, and found no proof at all. All that exists is anecdotal. And there are anecdotes for every gun ever made.

There is a reason why there are no closed-bolt guns on the market anymore. They are more complicated, and more expensive to produce. They offer no gain, but are slower, and require more maitenance. Yet, they are cool which is attractive to many.

There was a short time when the local field owner got his hands on an IMP Sniper. It is basically an open-bolt blowback conversion of a Sniper. We were bored, and did a side-by-side test of the Imp Sniper, compared to an Autococker. When using the same bolt, barrel, and paint, they shot identical. (Though the IMP came from the factory with a backspin bolt, so it which ever gun used that bolt did in fact shoot farther).

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Old 04-14-2008, 10:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I shoot slow. So...

I really prefer closed-bolt guns because the ball is already sitting in the barrel ready to go. Tee only things that act on the ball when you pull the trigger once are the air and the barrel.

In an open-bolt gun the BOLT slams into the ball forcing it into the barrel before the air and the barrel take control of the ball.

It's not a big difference really... but I notice when firing one shots and very slowly. This difference is totally negated at any decent rate of fire.

The above refers to my preference in mech guns. This being said I prefer Vikings when it comes to electros.
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