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Old 04-12-2008, 09:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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help me!! open bolt/closed bolt theory

i am sure this is kind of like the eternal debate here, like the chicken or the egg was first, but some of you aka fans could really help to stifle the ongoing arguments.

correct me if i am wrong, but the viking and excals were almost identical in design with the exception that one was open bolt, and the other was closed at the time of firing.

heck, if i remember correctly, i think that the marketing was geared at saying the viking was capable of a higher rof because of its open bolt function, but the excal was being marketed as a slower, but more accurate marker.

i have noticed that there are alot of gentlemen here who are collectors of both of these lines of markers, therefore you guys could pretty much prove this debate with a little scientific method (if the markers are identical in valves, firing pressure, etc.).

any thoughts to this?

or general feeling as to which marker is more accurate?

please excuse me for bringing this up if this has already been beaten to death here.
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Old 04-13-2008, 12:07 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by daniam View Post
i am sure this is kind of like the eternal debate here, like the chicken or the egg was first, but some of you aka fans could really help to stifle the ongoing arguments.

correct me if i am wrong, but the viking and excals were almost identical in design with the exception that one was open bolt, and the other was closed at the time of firing.

heck, if i remember correctly, i think that the marketing was geared at saying the viking was capable of a higher rof because of its open bolt function, but the excal was being marketed as a slower, but more accurate marker.

i have noticed that there are alot of gentlemen here who are collectors of both of these lines of markers, therefore you guys could pretty much prove this debate with a little scientific method (if the markers are identical in valves, firing pressure, etc.).

any thoughts to this?

or general feeling as to which marker is more accurate?

please excuse me for bringing this up if this has already been beaten to death here.
Well basically the Viking and the Excal basically share the same body, although after milling and creation of the airholes, they are not interchangeable. The Excal was designed first and the Viking was basically a by-product of the RD. Accuracy is a subjective term and will always be open to debate due to the large amounts of variables that are involved. The Viking is indeed capable of cycling much faster than the Excal due to the open bolt design. The Excal feels smoother because it is heavier and it seems like the 2 rams seem to counter each other while cycling resulting in smoother firing cycle. As far as actual kills per rounds fired, I get a much higher ratio with the excal due to the simple fact that it doe not fire as fast. I can skull you with either marker so that doesn't really matter to me. WHat matters is your personal preference. Do you want a lighter, faster marker that will easily keep up or outpace the crap that is being made today or due you prefer a closed bolt marker with a smoother feel to it? Using the scientific method to prove what I have said is basically a waste of time unless you want to provide a controlled environment, lots of paint, and someone who has a lot of time on their hands to calculate and interpret the data. Then you would have to repeat the results in several different environments to see if the results can be replicated even if things like the barometric pressure and temperature are different. A true gunwhore can kill you just the same with his Blazer or his Viking Personally I lean toward the VIking because you can mill it into prettier shapes
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Old 04-13-2008, 07:24 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Well said Himurax13

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Old 04-13-2008, 07:27 AM   #4 (permalink)
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well if they are not identical markers then it wouldn't work, so the horse already got shot before the race started.

i just ASSumed that they were identical because of all the excals that i have seen in person looked very much alike the pics of vikings.
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Old 04-13-2008, 08:46 AM   #5 (permalink)
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well if they are not identical markers then it wouldn't work, so the horse already got shot before the race started.

i just ASSumed that they were identical because of all the excals that i have seen in person looked very much alike the pics of vikings.
They are not identical but they do share many parts and are somewhat similar in design. Here is an 02 Excal and an 03 Viking

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Old 04-13-2008, 09:54 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Using the same variables (paint to barrel match, consistent power source,e tc.) all guns shoot the same and are equally accurate.

The whole open bolt vs closed bolt argument is bunk - there is little to no difference in real-world physics. That being said, most people will argue that their Shocker/Cocker/Typhoon/Blazer/Hurricane/whatever other closed bolt gun out there is more accurate than any open bolt or blow-forward design. It's more a matter of perception, I think, than any measureable data.

Pick up a Cocker and reverse the hoses - you'll get an open-bolt Cocker, and you'll have a chance to do your test on the exact same gun. Something I plan to do this summer with my new-to-me Minicocker.

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And God turned to Gabriel and said: “I shall create a land called Canada of outstanding natural beauty, with majestic mountains soaring with eagles, sparkling lakes abundant with bass and trout, forests full of elk and moose, and rivers stocked with salmon. I shall make the land rich in oil so the inhabitants prosper and call them Canadians, and they shall be praised as the friendliest of all people.”

“But Lord,” asked Gabriel, “Is this not too generous to these Canadians?”

And God replied, “Just wait and see the neighbors I shall inflict upon them.”
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Old 04-13-2008, 12:18 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Are you sure that would work?
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Old 04-13-2008, 01:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Well basically the Viking and the Excal basically share the same body, although after milling and creation of the airholes, they are not interchangeable. The Excal was designed first and the Viking was basically a by-product of the RD. Accuracy is a subjective term and will always be open to debate due to the large amounts of variables that are involved. The Viking is indeed capable of cycling much faster than the Excal due to the open bolt design. The Excal feels smoother because it is heavier and it seems like the 2 rams seem to counter each other while cycling resulting in smoother firing cycle. As far as actual kills per rounds fired, I get a much higher ratio with the excal due to the simple fact that it doe not fire as fast. I can skull you with either marker so that doesn't really matter to me. WHat matters is your personal preference. Do you want a lighter, faster marker that will easily keep up or outpace the crap that is being made today or due you prefer a closed bolt marker with a smoother feel to it? Using the scientific method to prove what I have said is basically a waste of time unless you want to provide a controlled environment, lots of paint, and someone who has a lot of time on their hands to calculate and interpret the data. Then you would have to repeat the results in several different environments to see if the results can be replicated even if things like the barometric pressure and temperature are different. A true gunwhore can kill you just the same with his Blazer or his Viking Personally I lean toward the VIking because you can mill it into prettier shapes

Spoken like a true gunwhore.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:12 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Spoken like a true gunwhore.
I prefer Versatile Enthusiast
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You have serious problems Himura. I remember when I first started buying guns I would oogle your collection.
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I'm sad to say I've rejected some pretty choice poon before. Sometimes little Mayvik (brain) gets the better of big Mayvik (peen). I blame it on the a..aha ha ah...ah ah alcohol.
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Old 04-14-2008, 10:24 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Are you sure that would work?
Yup - you'll need to retime it to get the hammer to release later in the pull, but it would work.

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And God turned to Gabriel and said: “I shall create a land called Canada of outstanding natural beauty, with majestic mountains soaring with eagles, sparkling lakes abundant with bass and trout, forests full of elk and moose, and rivers stocked with salmon. I shall make the land rich in oil so the inhabitants prosper and call them Canadians, and they shall be praised as the friendliest of all people.”

“But Lord,” asked Gabriel, “Is this not too generous to these Canadians?”

And God replied, “Just wait and see the neighbors I shall inflict upon them.”
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