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Old 05-17-2010, 10:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
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BT SA-17 Pistol

This is a flame thread, but if anyone has anything to say in defense of this design please post cause maybe I'm just seeing things in a strange light.

In these days of Tiberius 'mag style, integrated regulator, virtually recoilless, ultra-efficient pistols, why bother with the SA-17?

First: Its still a Spyder valve, which is a great valve for full sized markers, but has proven to have several weaknesses when dealing with pistols. The valve is relatively inconsistent when un-regulated; a situation which is very hard to remedy on a pistol of this design. It has a tendency to kick like a mule, making it hard to control without a fore-grip. (I don't care what the promo video says, "true blowback recoil" is not an advantage; its what firearm manufacturers and airsmiths have been trying to defeat since the earliest blowback designs.)

Second: Despite the fact that it is cocker threaded, the threads appear only after a bit of integrated barrel, making effective paint-to-bore matching impossible.

Third: While the feed system is somewhat interesting, I can't for the life of me see how flipping the tube forward will help holster the pistol in any stock holster I've seen.

Fourth: While the first strike capability is nice, the Tiberius is the superior system for anyone intent on using them as sniper rounds because it is 1) regulated and 2) does not dump liquid co2 into the valve when the pistol is arched up.

Fifth: As touched on in point four, the co2 feed system, while superior to the normal "screw cap" design, still dumps liquid into the valve whenever the marker is arched.

So, that's about it. If anyone has any input and/or rebuttles, feel free to post. You will not be attacked (by me at least).
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It will sell because its cheap.

Simply put.. personally I like the barrel system
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Old 05-23-2010, 02:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Since you stated this was a flame thread....if you think a paintball pistol in any variety kicks like a mule, you need to go pick up a can of soda and start doing some curls. It's a pistol. It's not supposed to be able to shoot zomg l33t ropez.

Like BOS said..it'll sell because it's cheap. As a dedicated sidearm/last ditch gun, this style (USP, etc) is really not that bad. Light, and you don't need to worry about mags, just throw a couple extra 10 round tubes in your pocket and you're good to go.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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True, will be cheep. Yeah, feed system is nice (esp for ppl used to stock class). And yeah, kick is nothing compared to a firearm, but i was referencing other comparable launching systems, so 68cla pneumatic only.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:44 PM   #5 (permalink)
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"As posted by Simon on PBn:

??? Really? Who by? Anyone that has learnt about the features and price point has been quite excited by it.

The intention of this gun is quite different to other products on the market place and is aimed at a different product niche, than the higher end magazine pistols which are very cool to handle and look at, but often don't make for easy use in play.

This pistol is at a lower price point, and at that price point offers a lot of functionality that makes it a more usable pistol when playing than anything else on the market.

You can quick change 12g's in seconds, and the seal system is designed to work with any of the very varied 12g manufacturers. It's a system similar to the old slam changers with a moving seal face to adjust to different 12g's.

You can run it with 10 round tubes, a spring fed tube system, or a hopper elbow with clamping feedneck. You can change from one system to the other in seconds. You can reload from a 10 round tube with ease and very quickly.

It has a 45 grip frame (will take wrap arounds and 45 panels) so it's comfortable in the hands of more players. It's a MUCH smaller grip frame than many other pistols on the market. Many players find the larger grips of the magazine fed pistols difficult to handle and use.

You can swap out barrel inserts in seconds so you can fit the paint you are shooting to get the best efficiency out of a 12g.

It uses BT ball detents.

The breech tip is cocker threaded so we will have a range of accessories that you can just screw on the front. A mock silencer etc. If you want and have a BIG bore cocker barrel you could even screw that onto it. We've done this to make rifle like versions based off the pistol.

It WILL shoot first strike rounds. The breech is designed to accept them and we may be making a First Strike magazine for it depending on demand. Right now it's great because you can slide the hopper port out of the way, load a first strike. So your first shot is a first strike but you can quickly follow it up with normal paintballs if you want by sliding the feed port back.

You can turn it into a rifle with the addition of a dummy 12g and bottom line kit.

It has rear slide cocking. With the change of a poppet stem you can actually make this "pump action"... you simply run the slide back for each shot.

By taking the spring out of the feed tube, it could be "stock class".

You can strip the internals out and clean it without needing any tools whatsoever. It only takes seconds to do so.

And all of that for under $130?

Let me know when you find a gun that comes close to those features for that price point.

What's the cheapest gun that is designed to be able to shoot first strike rounds?"
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:03 PM   #6 (permalink)
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sounds like a cheap alternative for people wanting to start pistol play
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Old 05-23-2010, 06:53 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'll be able to judge more accurately when I get my hands on one, but from what I've seen so far it is a serious improvement on the horribly flawed USP.

Alot of bells and whistles that people will buy, especially those who haven't been playing pistol enough to have a firm grip on what they want and what they don't.

Like most pistols on the paintball market this one is not, as far as I can see, made for durability or heavy use.

That's not so big a criticism considering most who buy it will carry it holstered more than they ever use it.

Someone like me, who pistol pierces over 900 12ies a year might not choose this pistol, but it wasn't made for me!
It seems ready made for those who want to try pistol without a big initial investment, since in spite of me posting pics and railing on the internet since 02, warsensor has never made a front load mag.
A zeus with a front load mag would top this in performance on field by a good margin, but with Miltec disappearing, Warsensor stagnating, Ariakon making stuff that's just silly and 32 degrees thinking the PT Extreme is OK, the market needs a cheap choice that's backed by an actual company.

I'll warn BT right now, the same way I warned Tippmann when they called me during development of the TPX:
"When your company starts to make a pistol, they join MY team and not the other way around. I'll mangle your pistol if I have to, to make it work as best as it can and everyone who comes in contact with me after, is going to get my honest opinion of what you've got."

I'll get my hands on one soon.
Just watched the video.
They still have the load at the breech end of the mag, so the slightest tip of the pistol will stack balls into the breech and jam loading. I like the part where the guy draws it and rips 14 shots!

I can't wait to see one in person!

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Old 05-23-2010, 07:10 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I am curious to see it in "real" action... The only real problem I see with this pistol is the lever that allows you to change 12 grams. I see this getting loose and having numerous problems in the future. The thing does not look to sturdy and durable to me. But other than that, I like this and find it interesting.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:18 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I love how eveyone calls it a pistol, it is pretty mucht he same size as a Spyder or clone! I would never use it as a backup pistol it is too big, same thing with the TAC8 and TPX. If you are going to have a back up pistol make sure it is the size of a pistol! Right now i dont see any ture pistol out there, excluding the Rap4 .43 cal.

i do think it is a nice CQB marker though.
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Old 10-29-2010, 02:23 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I love how eveyone calls it a pistol, it is pretty mucht he same size as a Spyder or clone! I would never use it as a backup pistol it is too big, same thing with the TAC8 and TPX. If you are going to have a back up pistol make sure it is the size of a pistol! Right now i dont see any ture pistol out there, excluding the Rap4 .43 cal.

i do think it is a nice CQB marker though.
In all fairness consider scale. Show me a single .50 cal pistol smaller than a Tib8 or TPX. Then that post might be somewhat applicable.
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