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Old 08-15-2011, 06:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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F4 Illustrators double/auto firing

I have 2 fully assembled F4 Illustrators. Both of them will double fire or can be finessed into full auto just by pulling the trigger. I have torn both markers completely apart and rebuilt them. I have one older trigger frame model (M-16 style grip) and a newer one (45 grip). The frames and bodies are not interchangeable. It seems that the contact between the triggers and sears are messed up causing the issue. I have a few old and new style sears and triggers but cannot get these things to work right. Anyone had experience with these markers? I love the way they shoot and are built. I just need to get this issue fixed and they are ready to rock. Please help!
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Old 08-15-2011, 09:08 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Lets start here -

How warn are the sears and hammers?

How do you "Finesse" them?

What are you using for an air source?

Does the full auto shoot down or remain constant and consistent?
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I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 08-15-2011, 10:55 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Greenmtnphantom View Post
Lets start here -

How warn are the sears and hammers?

How do you "Finesse" them?

What are you using for an air source?

Does the full auto shoot down or remain constant and consistent?
All that^^^

Illustrators have a disconnector arrangement, so if the bolt goes back far enough, the sear should catch it regardless of your finger activities.

If the sear / hammer catch is not worn, then make sure the sear is free to move with its spring. The bolt bumper can be too long along with weak blow back (maybe from your air source), or your bolt and/or hammer may be dragging.
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Old 08-15-2011, 05:44 PM   #4 (permalink)
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No its not low pressure shoot down full auto. The air source is HPA high output, so 750-900psi and a full cylinder. Sometimes at a finicky point the sear is caught by the trigger causing a full auto situation because the sear is held down away from the hammer. I got a spyder or 2 that does double fires also, just no full auto. About 1 in 5 shots with the F4 it double fires. I have tried different trigger and sear combos with no luck. Some combos caused an actual full auto or a no fire at all. The sears and triggers are both free and well lubed. Same with all internals. None of the trigger/sears look terribly worn but all are slightly different in size. Older/newer components are definitely different. They are not interchangable without modifying the trigger guard.
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Old 08-15-2011, 06:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Well if nothing looks mechanically wrong with the gun, nothing is stopping or slowing the hammer from going all the way back, you sure the sear is engaging the hammer properly and disengaging from the trigger properly, then I would try it on CO2 to rule out a reg pressure lower than 850. These like HIGH pressure.

Pictures of the setup and internals would be helpful if this doesn't work
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 08-15-2011, 08:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I will try to get a pic up soon, but it may not be til the weekend. Ya, co2 is a no go. All I have are 12g's. I might pull the hammer bumper and bolt bumper to start. I doubt that its the issue, but its worth a shot. Maybe I will mix up the hammers too.
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Old 08-15-2011, 11:21 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I will try to get a pic up soon, but it may not be til the weekend. Ya, co2 is a no go. All I have are 12g's. I might pull the hammer bumper and bolt bumper to start. I doubt that its the issue, but its worth a shot. Maybe I will mix up the hammers too.
You should be able to to tell if the bumper is the problem by manually cocking the bolt and feeling it. If you have multiple markers doing the same thing, your regulator on your tank may be just a hair lower than they like.

What does your setup look like? You might try adding an expansion chamber or gas thru grip to get some air volume after your tank regulator, so that it doesn't have to open up for a single shot and recock to work.
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Old 08-16-2011, 06:40 AM   #8 (permalink)
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You might be on to something there. I will try a different HPA tank but I do normally have gas-thru's on. One gun has an LPC and the other doesnt. I will throw the X chamber on the one and a gas-thru on the other with a different tank. Hopefully I can try this tonight.
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Old 08-16-2011, 08:07 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Hammer bumper?

There shouldn't be a bumper in the back of the lower tube on an F4. At least not on any of the ones I have ever owned (ACI vintage).

What is the chrono speed?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertsr View Post
I don't so much make money, as provide a conduit for it's movement.
Stock class = 12grams and a stick feed. End discussion.
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Old 08-16-2011, 09:43 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Hammer bumper?

There shouldn't be a bumper in the back of the lower tube on an F4. At least not on any of the ones I have ever owned (ACI vintage).

What is the chrono speed?
Yeah, I didn't catch that. There's a little white nylon bushing floating around in there, or not? Am I in the right marker?
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