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Old 08-03-2012, 05:16 PM   #31 (permalink)
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I guess the MWR doesn't remember they work for you. You just have to stay persistent on what you want to accomplish. I don't see how 40 rnds made a difference. Next thing you know they'll let you call "time out" when someone is ready to bunker you.

You've gotten this far. Now it's time to piss them off slowly. Start getting your command involved. You guys have the right to a safe playing enviroment and getting your monies worth.

I can say that when I played in Japan,it was safe and you never knew what game was going to be played next. I saw Joe make a game with a Pizza box. Called it "Pizza delivery".

That day I bought Pizza for the field, and this game was just from the hip or on the fly and it worked out great. A used pizza box and an empty soda box

Also I have never seen a team that was divided fair either

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Old 08-03-2012, 05:42 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input but it's still the same old S***. Pressing MWR for improvement here results in them taking things away. Their logic seems to be "We'll if this isn't good enough for you, then no one will get any."
I've talked to the command. I've talked to two heads of security, the current and previous one. Nothing. They say they can't do anything unless MWR requests their aid. Probably laziness but I don't know. Maybe it's a legitimate rule.
I've sent ICE complaints. Nothing. Not even when I check the little box that says would you like a response. ICE complaint are suppose to be received by the base CO and the department head. That would be Mr.Smith who I believe I described in an earlier post here. I'll try again since there have been computer errors in the past.
I've organized groups to meet with MWR staff. Nothing. The MWR staff either don't show due to illness or scheduling conflicts or they do show and display all the joy/enthusiasm of a victim talking to their rapist. After a while, the group splits due to people cycling out, or lack of progress.

Just an FYI, most of the MWR staff that pose problems are local nationals. I really don't know why the Italian nationals here have such a hate-on for actually working for a living or receiving advice. I feel like a bigot typing that but seriously! I should NOT have to keep reminding the ref to wear his god**** mask only to have him talk to his buddy in Italian before they both laugh.
It's almost like a Marx brothers film.

I'll see how tomorrow is assuming I can get out of bed. The whole "shoot your opponent until you're empty" thing is definitely going to take its toll. Maybe the little light-bulb will go on after some sleep and another venue will appear. And blackrain, I'm not doing my job unless everyone hates me. They've been pissed at me for a long time.
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Old 08-03-2012, 05:53 PM   #33 (permalink)
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If they hate you, then you are doing something right

That's what I was always told Yea let them keep their mask up. Maybe a stray round will smack them in the face. Then when it comes time for compensation, just write up a statement about how many times you have warned people (Staff) about keeping their mask on during play.

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Old 08-03-2012, 06:55 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Email the chain of command the link to the thread here with the guy who took a paintball to the eye, THEN describe the unsafe practices and flippant attitudes putting everyone at risk.

Don't forget to leave suggestions to fix things. Who knows you could possibly score a "promotion" and get to clean things up. I've seen similar things CONUS.
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Old 08-04-2012, 02:40 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Email the chain of command the link to the thread here with the guy who took a paintball to the eye...
Could you spare a link to that thread or point me in the right direction? I'm not sure where to start looking.
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Old 08-04-2012, 04:57 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Soooo I went to play paintball today. Please note I "went" to play paintball. I did not actually get to play. The flyer advertised the event was from 8-11 with OPTIONAL pre-registration at the auto-shop. I arrived shortly after 8 and I mean shortly. 8:03-8:05 Stood in the registration line and when it was my turn to register my team I was promptly informed that I was too late. The cut-off for registration was 8:00 am sharp. Before I managed to ask why my team wasn't allowed to register if we were next in line, the same large lady who was so angered by my giving more than 100rds to the two kids took me aside and said, "From now on you're not allowed to bring your own gear so get rid of your stuff".

Two things about that. First off, I find it interesting she took me aside and said I AM not allowed to bring my own gear as opposed to using the megaphone to announce to everyone who brought their gear that it is no longer allowed. Second, why? I did not ask her why I'm not allowed since I was busy figuring out how to explain to the rest of my team why we couldn't play that day. I probably should have pressed the issue but hindsight is always 20/20.

Still, why couldn't I bring my gear? I took the battery out of my Phenom so it was semi only before I played those two kids. I'm using standard field paint that I purchased from MWR personnel. Luckily it looks as if we can still use our own pods, harnesses and masks. I refuse to use their rental masks. They're bad even by rental mask standards. Since we can only use their markers, that leaves 12 old Tippmann 98s for everyone. Turnout was still 50+ people but I can't see that continuing if everyone is being treated this way.

Almost forgot, the inflatable arena partially deflated and collapsed on itself for about 15 minutes. No one was inside and I forgot my camera so I couldn't take a picture but it was pretty funny watching them struggle to figure out they needed to work on the compressor instead of looking all over and repeatedly hitting the arena.

Highlight of the day was meeting Puertorab from PBnation. It's always nice to meet someone from the internet who is who they say they are. Or even just their advertised gender. He said he's been trying to volunteer for the the Carney park paintball field since... I think he said May. The guy he's suppose to talk to won't return his calls or emails. So at least it's not just me. Kind of a bitter sweet thing.

That's all for now. The next paintball shindig isn't due until September 14th so I guess I'll get cracking on yet another ICE complaint. I hope this one goes through. Later.
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Old 08-04-2012, 05:02 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Could you spare a link to that thread or point me in the right direction? I'm not sure where to start looking.
http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/s....php?p=2414804
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Old 08-04-2012, 06:08 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Well I know MWR can't stop you from using your own. Especially since it's for you guys. Never on any military base I have been on has own gear been refused. You probably really need to talk with who ever runs MWR now.

Or best yet even write an article/review on their web site and post it for all to see. I bet that would get the attention of others. I wish I could go and play at that field for just a day.

Keep beating on them. Eventually they will give up.

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Old 08-04-2012, 09:48 AM   #39 (permalink)
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The Fort Benning MWR has two fields set aside that are ran by the people that play on it. There is no MWR staff on site. MWR will supply paint and Co2 fills for a charge, if you pre arrange it. The fills and paint are also off site. A local paintball store usually supplies everyone with what they need and even lends his scuba tanks out when needed.

Sounds to me like the staff at the MWR are threatened by your presence. I would keep pressing. Eventually you will get someone involved who is not in their "good ole boy" group. You know as well as I do that's how everything in the government is run.

I find it amazing they are buying Mini's. But I'm with you thinking it's not a coincidence they are disappearing. And if I'm not mistaken, those ICE complaints should be going across the deputy garrison CDR's desk. Not 100% sure of that but the ICE system at your post is broke. Maybe you need to push the ICE issue and then work on the paintball issue. I don't know what MOS you are, and all MOS's treat this differently, but have you talked to your CDR and possibly enlisted his help?
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Old 08-23-2012, 07:03 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Well me sideways.

Let's all get ready for a good laugh shall we... So I went ahead and filed an ICE complaint on AUG 5th and the system registered it at around 10:30 PM. Eventually I get a response on AUG 15th. First two red flags were that I did not receive a response within the required 48 hour period. I'm familiar with the sloppiness of MWR here so no big shocker. Second red flag is instead of the individual required to respond to the ICE complaint I get someone I've never even heard of. The guys title is "Community Programs Division Head". How cute.

Anyway, ICE complaints, at least here anyway, are supposed to be received by the base C.O. and the head of the department the complaint was filed toward. That would be Mr. Smith who I mentioned earlier in this thread.

Here's a copy of this guy's response. I'll omit names and numbers out of courtesy.

Mr. *********,
13 August 2012

I would like to thank you for coming out and participating in our
paintball event and appreciate your feedback on how we can improve the
program. It's true that due to recent staff turnover the paintball
program we hosted lacked some of the basic processes normally in place.
On Friday, you are correct when you say that there was no safety briefs
at the beginning, however, after a few rounds we did realize this and
made sure referee's were conducting them and we had no accidents or
incidents on either day.

It is evident that you have a great deal of knowledge, experience and
background with paintball and I welcome your input, it will assist us in
meeting our goal to offer a high quality, consistent paintball program
for our community. I would like an opportunity to meet with you and
some of our staff who work with the paintball program to discuss a way
forward to improve on the program. Furthermore, I would like to extend
an invitation to you to volunteer at our next paintball event in
September.

Thank you again for taking the time and providing comments/suggestions,
we look forward to working with you to make the next program more
enjoyable.

Please let me know when you are available to meet, I can be reached via
email or at ********.

We value your participation in our MWR programs.
Best regards,
********
MWR
Community Programs Division Head
NSA Naples, Italy

And here is my response.

Mr. ********,

Thank you for the response to my ICE submitted on August 5th.

Just to clarify, I do not know who advised you that the Safety Briefs were eventually conducted on Friday but I assure you I was there from the beginning through Group 16's arena time and throughout the day on Saturday and there were none on either day. And on Saturday there was still no chronograph to gauge and set all the markers on a proper and safe velocity. What about the absence of enough barrel bags for markers?
This is also a very serious issue and markers without barrel bags or plugs are not allowed on paintball field property in private enterprise.

These are all issues that paintball players with any experience are extremely sensitive to because there is absolutely no exception to these requirements and others, at any time. Among the other requirements are wearing masks at all times inside the playing area; if a malfunction, do not look down the barrel and DO disengage the air tank. These are standard things that are reflexive requirements on any paintball field.

As far as 'basic processes in place'; during at least the past three years, the MWR personnel working the paintball field have never displayed even minimal knowledge of safety or operations.

I agree that it is fortunate there were no accidents or injuries but the failure of the referees or MWR staff to correct dangerous behavior outside and inside the arena goes beyond just giving Safety Briefs. It shows that the referees and staff have neither the training nor the automatic safety mindset that needs to be in place at all times so that MWR continues to have no accidents or injuries during paintball events.

Since it is not productive to complain about something without having constructive ideas to go with the complaints, I appreciate your offer to volunteer and meet with you. However given my past attempts to improve the program and the clear and consistently unwelcome response from MWR staff at various levels, what has changed so that I will not be subjected to the same treatment?

I know other individuals in various Commands including Security, Fire and the Hospital who have extensive backgrounds in paintball who are also eager to get this program on a consistent, safe, enjoyable and hopefully profitable basis. There is no shortage of individuals with the expertise and commitment to get this done. But it is not worth anyone's time if we keep running into egos or managers with the mindset that they run into 'paintball gurus' like us all the time. The 'paintball gurus' may change names and faces, but if the paintball program is set up and maintained decently, the new ones coming in will always take the place of the ones who cycle out.

I realize you might not be used to this kind of honesty but in a place like Naples where some of the options are very limited, paintball has the same kind of appeal that golf does for a different set of individuals. But it would be much less expensive to set up and run a paintball program that could easily be as utilized as any other in MWR, maybe more.

How do you feel about meeting at the Bowling Alley some afternoon for a preliminary discussion? I would feel more comfortable meeting one-to-one given past experiences with other MWR employees.

Let me know.
Thank you.

In case anyone was wondering, I chose the bowling alley since it was the best I could come up with for neutral ground. I sent that response quite some time ago and have come to the conclusion they're trying to let it to slide.

Two things have happened since I sent this that by some obnoxious twist of fate have made things even worse off for me.

1) The base C.O. is in the hospital with a couple broken ribs and a shattered collarbone. He's a mega bicyclist who apparently wasn't aware of just how sadistic Italian drivers are. We'll leave it at that.
2) I do believe I have been black listed from all further MWR events and not just paintball. I won't know for certain until Sept 14-15 when they have their new once a month paintball shindig again. I've no tangible proof, but it's kind of like when you enter a room, things get all quiet and people stare angrily. Seems like ALL of MWR now has the hate on for me which is bad since they control the movie theater and just about everything else.

Worst case scenario is the MWR devils have whispered in the ear of the hospitalized C.O. and convinced him I'm a nuisance (or worse).

What sucks is since the C.O. is in the hospital I can't really send an ICE complaint on my ICE complaint if that makes any sense. The man's in pain and unable to do much of his work so I don't want to bother him. Since he's unable to check on people or conduct scheduled meetings most of MWR and HR have gone on extended vacation. That goes back to MWR trying to let this slide.

That's everything this time. Maybe I'll send a few more emails to Mr. Community Programs Division Head and see if he has a change of heart.

Oh, if anyone is wondering why paintball guru is displayed like that, it's because when I met with the guy in charge of Carney park one of the things he said was "We get paintball gurus like you in here every few months thinking you know better".

I don't know if it will make a difference but if you guys want I can post the actual ICE complaint. I'm still open to suggestions too.

Last edited by Antlion; 08-23-2012 at 08:26 PM.
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