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Old 08-03-2007, 07:56 PM   #1 (permalink)
njk
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how compressed air works?

How does compressed air work, is it worth the money. What is needed to fill a compressed air tank? What guns will work with compressed air. do you need to run a reg on all guns or just some?

I basically need the compressed air 101. I have a JT Tac-5.
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Old 08-03-2007, 08:53 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Any gun will work with compressed air. HPA tanks carry atmosphere(and very rarely 100% nitrogen, but that's almost never the case) under pressure, at either 3000 or 4500 PSI. All HPA tanks have a regulator that steps this pressure down to a usable pressure. Some tanks have variable(adjustable) outputs, while others are "preset" at a certain pressure(800 or 400 as I recall).

HPA is more consistent, due to the fact that every HPA tank already has a regulator in line, and that HPA is composed of a mixture of gases. Some of these gases are less sensitive to temperature and pressure changes than CO2, helping to lend a more consistent output pressure(the regulator is a big part as well).

HPA tanks come in either screw in(with a standard ASA, like on a CO2 tank), or a cradle/rail mount variants.

I don't know the specifics of your JT, but you probably want a high pressure(800 PSI), preset screw-in tank. Either 3000 or 4500 will be fine, 4500 being more desirable. This will allow you to run without a regulator, and simply thread it in where your CO2 tank would go.


Any gun will also work with CO2, but that's another story.
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:25 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwigum View Post
Any gun will work with compressed air. HPA tanks carry atmosphere(and very rarely 100% nitrogen, but that's almost never the case) under pressure, at either 3000 or 4500 PSI. All HPA tanks have a regulator that steps this pressure down to a usable pressure. Some tanks have variable(adjustable) outputs, while others are "preset" at a certain pressure(800 or 400 as I recall).

HPA is more consistent, due to the fact that every HPA tank already has a regulator in line, and that HPA is composed of a mixture of gases. Some of these gases are less sensitive to temperature and pressure changes than CO2, helping to lend a more consistent output pressure(the regulator is a big part as well).

HPA tanks come in either screw in(with a standard ASA, like on a CO2 tank), or a cradle/rail mount variants.

I don't know the specifics of your JT, but you probably want a high pressure(800 PSI), preset screw-in tank. Either 3000 or 4500 will be fine, 4500 being more desirable. This will allow you to run without a regulator, and simply thread it in where your CO2 tank would go.


Any gun will also work with CO2, but that's another story.
Jwigum hit the nail on the head with that explanation.

For your JT Tac-5, any preset high pressure output HPA tank should be fine. You could also use CO2 on your Tac-5 as well. The Tac-5s will run fine on CO2.

Just to give you an idea of what you're going spending, steel tanks (3000psi) range from 47ci for $40 to 72ci for $65. Once you get into the Carbon Fiber tanks (4500psi), the price will range from $180-$220 depending on the manufacturer and the hydro date. Also, be advised that a Tank Cover is highly recommended for Carbon Fiber tanks and that will cost another $20-$30.

I have a Pure Energy Carbon Fiber 68/4500 tank with a 5 year hydro that I picked up for $160 in a sell. Shop around and you may find an even better deal.
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Old 08-03-2007, 09:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If your wanting to fill it from your house your going to need a lot of money. You're going to need either an air compressor or bulk/scuba tank to fill to your compressed air tank. An air compressor that will fill to 3000 psi will cost you well over $1000 new. Bauerpaintball.com and nuvair.com manufacturers them. A standard shop compressor will not put out enough psi to fill a tank. But, there are people that connect their marker to their shop compressor, they usually do this just to test their marker. This can be done with a filter and the right adapters/fittings. A cheaper and more affordable route would be to buy/rent a scuba or bulk tank. Find a local scuba shop and they will give you more details.
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Old 08-03-2007, 10:12 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jwigum View Post
Any gun will work with compressed air.
Of my 20 or so guns, 15 of them will not work with compressed air. Nor would I want to.

HPA is certaintly better then CO2 in some situations. If comparing HPA to non-siphon CO2, the HPA will have far better shootdown rates, far better consistency, far better temperature sensitivety.
But, HPA is still less effecient, heavier, bulkier, far more expensive, requires more maintenance, etc.

For the AVERAGE player, HPA is a disadvantage. Money is better spent on a better hopper, mask, pack, etc.

But thats just my 2 cents

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Old 08-03-2007, 11:08 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Yeah, I've just run across this CO2 dependance on some of my old markers as well. But pretty much exclusively they are the older breeds.

Your JT will be fine with any of the tanks but it should use a high pressure output (850 psi) output reg as opposed to the rare but out there low pressure output 450psi regs. This is because your JT is intended for direct CO2. The 850 psi output tanks are the best matchup for that. If you go for a 450 it's quite possible that you would need to play with altering springs to get it all back in balance and shooting up to proper ball velocity.

For your JT you won't need any other reg other than the one that comes with the HPA bottle. Just screw it in and go play.

As they said it's really not practical to fill your own tanks without major cash outlay. So you're dependent on the shops and fields.

Something to consider is that if you can fill a 20oz CO2 or a 68 cu inch HPA bottle for the same price then the CO2 is a WAAAAAY better deal. A full 20oz CO2 will easily last you all day and probably well into a second day. But a 68 ci HPA bottle is only going to last you a game or two and then it'll be empty. This is fine if you're playing at a field that has a flat "all day air" charge but it sucks if you're filling up to play with some budds on a remote lot somewhere. So depending on how and where you play CO2 can still have a big advantage.
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Old 08-04-2007, 02:13 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railgun View Post
Yeah, I've just run across this CO2 dependance on some of my old markers as well. But pretty much exclusively they are the older breeds.

Your JT will be fine with any of the tanks but it should use a high pressure output (850 psi) output reg as opposed to the rare but out there low pressure output 450psi regs. This is because your JT is intended for direct CO2. The 850 psi output tanks are the best matchup for that. If you go for a 450 it's quite possible that you would need to play with altering springs to get it all back in balance and shooting up to proper ball velocity.

For your JT you won't need any other reg other than the one that comes with the HPA bottle. Just screw it in and go play.

As they said it's really not practical to fill your own tanks without major cash outlay. So you're dependent on the shops and fields.

Something to consider is that if you can fill a 20oz CO2 or a 68 cu inch HPA bottle for the same price then the CO2 is a WAAAAAY better deal. A full 20oz CO2 will easily last you all day and probably well into a second day. But a 68 ci HPA bottle is only going to last you a game or two and then it'll be empty. This is fine if you're playing at a field that has a flat "all day air" charge but it sucks if you're filling up to play with some budds on a remote lot somewhere. So depending on how and where you play CO2 can still have a big advantage.
Well, I've found that my Blazer gets roughly the same amount of shot off of a 20 oz. CO2 tank as it does my 68/4500. I can play an entire day on my 68/4500.

Also, HPA fills are usually cheaper than CO2 fills. In the long (long, long...) run, you'll end up actually saving money.

I've just become much more partial to HPA than CO2 for the following reasons:

>No Shootdown
>I can point my marker at the ground w/o having to worry about shooting hot
>It's easier to fill
>It's much more consistent
>You can use it on ANY marker (exceptions might be some antique markers)
>You can fill it on the marker
>You don't need to re-chrono after refilling it.

In the end though, it all comes down to personal preference. I find the benefits to outway the cost factor. Quality only hurts once (I believe a Palmer quote).

Also, as far as filling your own tanks, the cheapest compressor that can fill up to 3000psi was almost $7,000 and many of the nicer ones can run up to and beyond $10,000.

A bulk/scuba tank that fills up to 3000psi with a fill station will be around $130-$200.
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Old 08-04-2007, 07:37 AM   #8 (permalink)
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HPA certaintly does have its advantages. But co2 as advantages as well. No air system is perfect.

Granted, I only run siphons, so I already get the same benefits of HPA using CO2, but nearly all modern guns can not run a siphon, so its not really a good example. (Though, the tech from TIppmann told me that all the TIppmann guns, except for the E-Bolt, can run a siphon)

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Old 08-04-2007, 07:50 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I shot an old school shocker that loved CO2. It worked great in all conditions but the filth that CO2 put in that marker was ridiculous. I didn't mind CO2 as a gas source because it ran my markers fine but I couldn't tolerate the amount of crap it put in my gun.

To the OP... A HPA system are a good investment right now if you:

1. Play at a field where air is available and inexpensive. If you play in the woods with some buddies then I would suggest getting one or 2 more CO2 tanks so you never run out of gas before you run out of paint.

2. Plan on changing your marker to one that must use HPA in the future. Good markers can be had at a cheap prices currently but the added cost of a HPA system at the same time as the marker gets expensive pretty quickly.
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Old 08-04-2007, 10:45 PM   #10 (permalink)
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well you answered my bigest question, Could I fill my own tanks with a shop compresser. Thank you all for the feed back on my questions.
I think I'll just stick with my co2 tanks.
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