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idkfa 07-26-2012 01:11 PM

Cocker timing question
 
MOVED FROM WGP SUB-FORUM

I have my Autococker set up fairly well but I am having one final problem. It fires in the first 1/4 of the trigger pull, re-cocks in the last 1/4, but it is firing again after I release the trigger.

Pulling it slowly, it looks like either the back block is not returning the cocking rod far back enough to catch the sear, or it is returning it far enough but it's slipping when the back block returns forward.

Any ideas?

UPDATE:

It doesn't seem to be the pump arm, cocking rod, or LPR setting. The pump arm and back block are set to allow enough rear travel and the cocking rod knob is adjusted in far enough to allow it to cock.

The LPR seems to be providing enough force, if I go much higher I get leaks from the tubing downstream of the LPR.

I am thinking it might be the hammer lug itself. Is it possible for this to be rounded enough to slip on the sear plate?

James_Blond 07-26-2012 01:28 PM

I'm pretty new to cocker's as well, but did successfully time a couple recently. Have you checked ravi chopra's cocker infosheet? Great read. Anyways, yes the lug/sear can wear down you may need to lower the lug a bit to keep it from slipping.

If the sear is releasing as early in the pull as you said you might want to try delaying the firing a little bit. See if that helps. Again that would be by adjusting the lug a bit further down. Meaning down from the body of the gun towards the grips frame.

paintballedbackin88 07-26-2012 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idkfa (Post 2423825)
MOVED FROM WGP SUB-FORUM

I have my Autococker set up fairly well but I am having one final problem. It fires in the first 1/4 of the trigger pull, re-cocks in the last 1/4, but it is firing again after I release the trigger.

Pulling it slowly, it looks like either the back block is not returning the cocking rod far back enough to catch the sear, or it is returning it far enough but it's slipping when the back block returns forward.

Any ideas?

UPDATE:

It doesn't seem to be the pump arm, cocking rod, or LPR setting. The pump arm and back block are set to allow enough rear travel and the cocking rod knob is adjusted in far enough to allow it to cock.

The LPR seems to be providing enough force, if I go much higher I get leaks from the tubing downstream of the LPR.

I am thinking it might be the hammer lug itself. Is it possible for this to be rounded enough to slip on the sear plate?

A worn lug is definitely a possibility. The first and easiest thing to check first would be lug depth. Using a 1/8 hex, try turning it 1/4 clockwise at a time to lower the lug. This will move the firing back a bit in to the pull and may correct the slippage.

When I time the cocking cycle too far rearward, I will see this lug slippage happen as well. Moving the cocking cycle forward a bit may also solve this. The adjustment of the collar will depend on if you are using a slide or hinge frame.

These 2 adjustments will bring the firing and cocking cycles closer together as a result.

You may also trying a longer or stiffer sear spring, especially when dealing with a roller sear. You can try shimming the sear spring with a round head screw dropped in upside down and placing the sear spring on top of it.

Hope this helps. Qevs also make it a bit tricky, depending on the individual frame.

idkfa 07-26-2012 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paintballedbackin88 (Post 2423840)
Helpful words

To check my understanding, I should move the hammer release a little later in the pull, and move the cocking a little forward?

Right now there is over a 1/2 trigger pull between them at each end of the pull, so I should bring them to within about 1/4 pull somewhere in the middle?

I checked my sear spring, it was set improperly and wasn't pushing up enough. After fixing this I got 3 to 4 proper cycles off before it started slipping again.

Maybe I will swap my S6 hammer in to remove that from the equation.

russc 07-26-2012 02:03 PM

Sear spring is usually the fix when I have this issue. QEVs can also exacerbate the problem. QEVs are not good for mech cockers, IMO.

What is happening is your backblock is moving forward quicker than your sear can raise up to catch the hammer.

idkfa 07-26-2012 02:18 PM

Thanks Russ!

I will try shimming the spring until I can source something stronger.

No QEVs here. Also, for reference, it is a Trilogy with ANS Quickfire 45 Slider frame.

paintballedbackin88 07-26-2012 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russc (Post 2423863)
Sear spring is usually the fix when I have this issue. QEVs can also exacerbate the problem. QEVs are not good for mech cockers, IMO.

What is happening is your backblock is moving forward quicker than your sear can raise up to catch the hammer.

I've learned this frustrating lesson well over the past 2 days when I installed a roller sear and new slide frame on my mech cocker with ram/qevs installed.

Removing the qevs made all the difference in ease of timing.

noclue119 07-26-2012 06:32 PM

adjust you cocking rod length. I think your cocking rod length is too long.

idkfa 07-26-2012 06:42 PM

It is as short as it can be. I have compared cycling the back block by hand against the movement when aired up and it is almost certainly bringing it to the point where it should engage.

I am going to try shimming the spring first, followed by a new hammer, to see if one of those is the culprit.

Mr. Hick 07-26-2012 06:53 PM

Definitely sear spring. It's either too soft and it allowing the hammer (if it isn't a square one) to push past the sear or it's just not quick enough.


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