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Old 11-12-2012, 07:52 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Old 11-13-2012, 12:22 AM   #12 (permalink)
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thanks guys!

Depending on what OD the orracle has, it might be the one for me. I like to be able to adjust it externally
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Last edited by broder; 11-13-2012 at 12:35 AM.
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Old 11-13-2012, 04:51 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I know this is pretty much to ask, but would anyone with a belsales hollow-way and a calipers mind to give me these measurements?



It would help alot Thank you
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Old 11-14-2012, 09:12 PM   #14 (permalink)
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fyi check out the selection on airsoldier.com. have blue has some really really small ones out there, although the smallest are solenoids

Clippard SMAV-3 Subminiature Valve
Fabco MSV-1 3-way Valve
Fabco MSV-2 3-way Valve

The last one there I have had so much luck with in terms of pneumag and auto-sheridan/pseudo-stroker/typhoon type builds.

and for solenoids see:
SMC SY123A-SG-PM3
SMC SY113A-SG-PM3
SMC S070C-SDG-32

again out of those three (and other more traditional size models) I've had a lot of success, especially in electro-cocker setups, with the last model there

Last edited by toymachine; 11-14-2012 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:43 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toymachine View Post
fyi check out the selection on airsoldier.com. have blue has some really really small ones out there, although the smallest are solenoids

Clippard SMAV-3 Subminiature Valve
Fabco MSV-1 3-way Valve
Fabco MSV-2 3-way Valve

The last one there I have had so much luck with in terms of pneumag and auto-sheridan/pseudo-stroker/typhoon type builds.

and for solenoids see:
SMC SY123A-SG-PM3
SMC SY113A-SG-PM3
SMC S070C-SDG-32

again out of those three (and other more traditional size models) I've had a lot of success, especially in electro-cocker setups, with the last model there
Thanks!

But all of those are 3-ways right? which means that you would have to use two of them to control a cocker ram. Or you could use a single on and use this cylinder instead? And I'm not sure the spring has enough force on the return stroke for a nelson. Maybe it has, and in that case, it's much easier to use that one.

EDIT: I actually like the idea of having two SMAV-3. That way I wont have to worry about short stroking and the timing is much easier!
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Last edited by broder; 11-15-2012 at 01:55 AM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:14 AM   #16 (permalink)
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iirc the SMAV is what is more commonly known as a two-way (one input one output, either open or closed depending on where you attach hosing) and the MSV valves are what we normally call three-ways. off the top of my head I'm not absolutely sure, so make sure you figure that out! I'd strongly suggest getting in touch with have blue to have him explain their specs to you in plain english AND see if you can't get the specification sheets for those valves (I got these when I purchased a couple MSV-2 valves from him). I'll pm you his email.

Now, just for my curious sake, if no one elses, could you give some more details on your autonelson design/build/concept? More diagrams would also be cool I'd love to see how you're thinking of designing everything and especially if it can handle like 10-13bps under normal circumstances without parts getting worn down really fast resulting in the system breaking down, either at the powertube, coupling, pump arm, etc etc.

Thx mate!
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:11 AM   #17 (permalink)
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If you are going to be designing a gun from scratch, why not incorporate the 5-way into the receiver?

Have you anticipated the known problem with the Nelson Valve interacting with a fast, mechanically operated ram? I recall Palmer had much difficulty with this on the Tornado, and eventually ditched the idea.
I believe the TS-1/AT-85 is the only one to get one that worked somewhat reliably.
Good luck.
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:44 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Here's a site that might be helpful: Paintball Tech Ratsnest

cocker tech

There's a drawing for an (old) stock WGP 4-way shaft. It might be beneficial to mill your own 4-way, and just use an existing shaft? That way, you could fit it just about anywhere. Just a thought...
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Old 11-16-2012, 11:59 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi View Post
Here's a site that might be helpful: Paintball Tech Ratsnest

cocker tech

There's a drawing for an (old) stock WGP 4-way shaft. It might be beneficial to mill your own 4-way, and just use an existing shaft? That way, you could fit it just about anywhere. Just a thought...
Yes, I think this would be the best idea over buying a 2/3/4-way made according to arbitrary (related to your build) specs. Obviously it would require more work, but might not be more than you would think given you still have mount an aftermarket valve. Good point mentioning the AT lines. Even though I owned one year and years ago, I think you're absolutely right - the only auto-nelson (including pump assists) that doesn't seem to do serious damage to the gun's internals/valve system.

In terms of adding the three-way into your gun design, you might also want to look at the hardware/internals for PPS's quickswitch 3-way or whatever it's called. The seal mounts seem like they're be super easy to incorporate into your own design, modular I'd call them. This might be the same case with the wgp 3-way mentioned, so please forgive me it this is being repetitive.

EDIT: from one of the above links, this is what I was talking about regarding PPS's quickswitch

Last edited by toymachine; 11-16-2012 at 12:13 PM.
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Old 11-16-2012, 03:17 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toymachine View Post
iirc the SMAV is what is more commonly known as a two-way (one input one output, either open or closed depending on where you attach hosing) and the MSV valves are what we normally call three-ways. off the top of my head I'm not absolutely sure, so make sure you figure that out! I'd strongly suggest getting in touch with have blue to have him explain their specs to you in plain english AND see if you can't get the specification sheets for those valves (I got these when I purchased a couple MSV-2 valves from him). I'll pm you his email.

Now, just for my curious sake, if no one elses, could you give some more details on your autonelson design/build/concept? More diagrams would also be cool I'd love to see how you're thinking of designing everything and especially if it can handle like 10-13bps under normal circumstances without parts getting worn down really fast resulting in the system breaking down, either at the powertube, coupling, pump arm, etc etc.

Thx mate!
Well, according to clippard's site, the smav-3 should be an threeway, I think it works like if you use it N.O, the N.C port acts as the exhaust and the other way around. I'll definitely talk to haveblue!

Well, this is just a design/concept in this stage. My dream is to build it next year. I plan on making the bolt, powertube, valvenut, cupseal, upper and lower "receiver", trigger frame and all the small parts by myself at my school. I want someone else to machine the body, just to get it right. And I will be using a modified phantom hammer. All valve parts and powertube will be larger and more sturdy than stock phantom parts. The bolt is bore drop so it should handle it better than a phantom bolt.

I haven't finished my design yet, but I will post more and explain later on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by secretweaponevan View Post
If you are going to be designing a gun from scratch, why not incorporate the 5-way into the receiver?

Have you anticipated the known problem with the Nelson Valve interacting with a fast, mechanically operated ram? I recall Palmer had much difficulty with this on the Tornado, and eventually ditched the idea.
I believe the TS-1/AT-85 is the only one to get one that worked somewhat reliably.
Good luck.
The problem with a incoprprated 4/5 way is that the reciever consists of two parts, upper and lower. And the I feel it would be easier to just buy one that works and has a smooth action.

I'm thinking of slowing down the ram with a "flow/check valve unit" (IDK what it' s called in English ) BPS is not that important, I will be using a springfeed on top and I rather have a slower cycle than to put too much stress on the internals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chachi View Post
Here's a site that might be helpful: Paintball Tech Ratsnest

cocker tech

There's a drawing for an (old) stock WGP 4-way shaft. It might be beneficial to mill your own 4-way, and just use an existing shaft? That way, you could fit it just about anywhere. Just a thought...
I think it would be hard as I said in earlier post, but maybe I'll give it a try. We'll see Thanks for the links!

Quote:
Originally Posted by toymachine View Post
Yes, I think this would be the best idea over buying a 2/3/4-way made according to arbitrary (related to your build) specs. Obviously it would require more work, but might not be more than you would think given you still have mount an aftermarket valve. Good point mentioning the AT lines. Even though I owned one year and years ago, I think you're absolutely right - the only auto-nelson (including pump assists) that doesn't seem to do serious damage to the gun's internals/valve system.

In terms of adding the three-way into your gun design, you might also want to look at the hardware/internals for PPS's quickswitch 3-way or whatever it's called. The seal mounts seem like they're be super easy to incorporate into your own design, modular I'd call them. This might be the same case with the wgp 3-way mentioned, so please forgive me it this is being repetitive.

EDIT: from one of the above links, this is what I was talking about regarding PPS's quickswitch
http://haveblue.org/tech/autococker/Palmer4way.jpg
To be honest, I dont really know how the palmer works
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