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Old 11-30-2012, 12:03 PM   #11 (permalink)
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yea, you got it. only thing you need to make it work is a modified valve body. if this guy can do it in an hour and a half with a drill press, anyone can (with access to a drill press ). pretty sure dukie will do it for you for cheap iirc when you buy the trigger frame/changer
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Old 11-30-2012, 12:04 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I had an R7, ordering another one to be used as my primary along with a Duck. The redux I have that has been modded by CJ shoots great, and the only reason I'm selling it is because of the Duck hopefully being shipped next week. I think I'll sell my boxgun too, it just sits there on my wall wanting to be played with, but after getting an R7 - I don't think I ever will play with it.

Get an R7 with all the goodies - you won't regret it! The Redux and VKC are great guns, don't get me wrong!
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:13 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I think my vote has to go with the Retro 7 too. I have one already, and a Gen3 paid for with a full slide kit and mag changer. I think that will be the ultimate SC marker for "Duck Aficionados" given the way they're designed.

Out of the Redux, VKC duck, and Kamikaze Duck, the Redux has always been my favorite. Once i did the anti-pinch mod on the slide, it's been one of the few guns I have that has never let me down. I get solid efficiency out of it, it shoots where I point it, and it just looks good.

The Kamikaze Shooter was my dream gun, and has become a bit of a wallhanger. I still bring it out once in a while, but I'm very selective about it. Usually only on low key walkon days, or games where there's a good amount of fellow MCB'ers.

The VKC Duck is the black sheep. I want to love it. I want it to be the best of the three. It simply does not pinch. I pulled 30 shots out with the standard short barrel. It's two tone dust/polished finish is beautiful. But the biggest flaw with it is the snub underneath the slide. The slot that the bolt latch goes through is milled too long, and presents some issues when you air it up. If you're careful, delicate, and precise, it's not an issue. But when you're getting shot at by three people with Egos, it's a problem. The slide can travel too far back, and pop the valve open when you pump it. I've sent paint downrange several times just pumping the thing. But, I won't get too into it because it irks me and I can rant about it all day.

Bottom line/TL;DR - Retro 7. Especially with the slide kit. I think it's going to be the best of the bunch.
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Old 11-30-2012, 01:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
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God, reading this thread, can't ****ing wait to get a retro 7... I also had been planning to get a duck and had even began setting something up with a nice lady from cm, but that will have to wait for later. Plus, at this stage in life, 3k on a paintball gun is something I have a hard time justifying. One day, one day soon, but first this
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Old 12-02-2012, 10:53 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I haven't tried the others but I do really enjoy my retro. It's a nice balance of classy looks and function. It's a well thought out and simple gun. It's definitely a players gun more than a wall hanger but if you want fancy cloths you can also get a magnum kit.
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:17 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Old 12-02-2012, 11:39 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I have 2 phantoms and an R7.

The R7 has a really nice (short, crisp, light) trigger pull. Points extremely well. Really a great design, in grip 12 gram changer (this option is not cheap on any paintball marker), slide in 10 rd tubes, cocker threaded barrel.

With the price of the R7, it is really hard (impossible IMHO) to justify the price of a Duck or Redux.

Also, CJ know his stuff!
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Old 12-03-2012, 02:33 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I'm basically going to agree with you on that... I think it's possible to do a good job of implementing a slider trigger in a Nelson based pistol design, but I thought it should be possible to make an even better hinge trigger instead... the Retro's trigger is the result of that experiment, I consider it to be a fairly successful result. The trigger to frame/grip line geometry is very close to that of the sliding trigger most of these guns aim to mimic (that of the 1911), and it accomplishes basically the ideal trigger action (which many slider triggers struggle to get right, even after tuning). Additionally, it does it with the minimal number of parts and refined, simple geometry (this I also like).

PS, very awesome to hear so many of you appreciate the performance value of the Retro 7, I'm very glad it's up to all of our demanding standards for both a reliable players gun and an enthusiasts platform. It greatly encourages my goals to continue the improvement of the product line and expand it further with more variety

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Old 12-03-2012, 02:43 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Preaching to the choir, but the Retro 7's 12 gram in-grip setup and gas transfer system make it the best on gas. I know CJ and others have mentioned it hear and elsewhere, but the Redux has a major flaw in how the air enters the valve. The pierce pin sits right at the cup seal, causing liquid to be dumped with every shot. The Retro not only has the gas enter at the rear of the valve, but the magic nipple keeps the recharge rate slow to basically eliminate liquid in the valve. Right out of the box, I was getting nearly 40 shots.

The Retro might not have the style points of the Redux (though the Magnum slide should help with that), but the performance can't be beat. The trigger is light, short, and crisp. Absolutely a dream. The trigger frame is phenominal. Everyone that has shot mine has noted how well the gun points. The angles/curves... flawless. The gun balances perfectly. The freak bored barrel is a great balance of looks and size (small enough to keep the pistol look and feel, yet long enough for good efficiency).

The gun is designed all over to be a player's gun. ApoC's insight into every detail is pretty evident. I've tried looking for something I would change in the design, and I just can't find anything (once I swapped out the teflon pierce pin seal for a modified CCI cup seal).
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Old 12-03-2012, 04:33 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'm bias toward the redux, it works for me with little issue. And with a whoosh it is shear magic on the field. But again, I'm bias.
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