Paintball

[Manning]

I'm on the cusp of my next marker purchase and was considering a Redux. I've been doing my homework and read several reviews and have since changed my mind. I am however interested in the new VKC ducks since this model seems to have solved the pinching issues that plagued the Redux. I am also interested in a Retro 7 and would be slapping a magnum kit on that if I decided to go that route.

A little about me:
I've played stock class off and on for about 4 years and having been playing paintball since 92. The stock class markers I have owned have been; phantom, multiple PGPs, a PUG, and a Super Stocker.

I'd love to hear from folks that have owned a redux, retro 7, and a micro phantom - but if you've owned at least two of these please answer this question:

If you had to choose between a VKC Duck, Retro 7, or a micro-phantom, which would you get now and why?

If the VKC Duck eliminates the pinching problem of the Redux, is it the champ? Does the Retro 7 equal or best it in terms of performance, coolness, and upgradability? Or for the cost, am I better off just building a fully upgraded micro-phantom and just save monies??

Any input is much appreciated.

[heinous]

if you want one that just works and would be your workhorse, stock class phantom would be your best bet. none of your mentioned choices had decades to iron out the kinks.

but judging by your mentioned choices you are more interested in a status symbol, in which case you really should just get whichever appeals to you.

i've got the retro and tried a phantom, for some reason i can't get used to the over-barrel pump of the phantom. it just feels awkward, but that's just personal preference. you've used it yourself and are considering another so it probably isn't an issue for you.

[Manning]

I'll admit I do favor the uniqueness and craftsmanship of the higher end markers.

[heinous]

lol then get the one you like! and if you still can't decide, then see which one can ship the soonest

[CJOttawa]

Retro7 is my #1 choice.

I have enough money I could by all three. I only own the R7 at this point.

Reasons:
Can be used without the (as yet unbuilt) slide.
Cocker threaded barrels
Cocking handle doesn't interfere with line of sight.
Gas-transfer system is the biggest leap in Nelson valve design in, well, ever.
Player-friendly accessories (mag changer etc)
Off the shelf parts. (Phantom internals, CCI seals can be used throughout)

You can use the R7 as a pistol or add a longer barrel and various gizmos to make it feel more like a Phantom. You can't really pistolize a Phantom.

The VKC duck probably fixes the chopping issue of the gen 1 Redux. It still has the liquid-siphoning problem in the valve.

I won't get into any more details here; I've posted ad nauseum in the Redux, CCI and Avratech sections.

[heinous]

Originally Posted by CJOttawa

Retro7 is my #1 choice.

I have enough money I could by all three. I only own the R7 at this point.

Reasons:
Can be used without the (as yet unbuilt) slide.
Cocker threaded barrels
Cocking handle doesn't interfere with line of sight.
Gas-transfer system is the biggest leap in Nelson valve design in, well, ever.
Player-friendly accessories (mag changer etc)
Off the shelf parts. (Phantom internals, CCI seals can be used throughout)

You can use the R7 as a pistol or add a longer barrel and various gizmos to make it feel more like a Phantom. You can't really pistolize a Phantom.

The VKC duck probably fixes the chopping issue of the gen 1 Redux. It still has the liquid-siphoning problem in the valve.

I won't get into any more details here; I've posted ad nauseum in the Redux, CCI and Avratech sections.

does dukie's frame fit phantoms? he might be able to build one that way and it would be a true stock class gun while still in pistol form, all the while giving it the touch of exoticism that he seeks.

from my (limited) experience his bucket changer does come loose if you aren't careful. i'm thinking if it would do some good to have a kind of reverse wraparound grips so your palm doesn't apply friction directly on the bucket, lowering its chance to loosen... but it's not a huge problem regardless.

comfy as hell though, that frame.

[Manning]

Well it's more than just what I like.

I've had several PPS squalls but actually prefer my humble SA-17 to them. I paid between 350-600 for each squall and bought the 17 for $75 shipped NIB. I've since sold all the squalls and still have the 17. It's an unregulated spring fed pistol, just like the squall, but gets more shots from a 12g and I can change barrels on it so it will stay with me.

I would love to own a hand crafted duck, but not if I spend the day fixing it, or cleaning busted paint from it, instead of playing with it. I definitely appreciate having a conversation piece in my hands before I hit the field, but I want it to do its job when I need it on the field. Nothing is more frustrating than having an expensive paintball blender in your hands and having to walk off the field.

I also am looking for performance. Stock class demands a higher level of accuracy and playability from the marker in my opinion.

[Manning]

Originally Posted by CJOttawa

Retro7 is my #1 choice.

I have enough money I could by all three. I only own the R7 at this point.

Reasons:
Can be used without the (as yet unbuilt) slide.
Cocker threaded barrels
Cocking handle doesn't interfere with line of sight.
Gas-transfer system is the biggest leap in Nelson valve design in, well, ever.
Player-friendly accessories (mag changer etc)
Off the shelf parts. (Phantom internals, CCI seals can be used throughout)

You can use the R7 as a pistol or add a longer barrel and various gizmos to make it feel more like a Phantom. You can't really pistolize a Phantom.

The VKC duck probably fixes the chopping issue of the gen 1 Redux. It still has the liquid-siphoning problem in the valve.

I won't get into any more details here; I've posted ad nauseum in the Redux, CCI and Avratech sections.

Great points. Thanks for this.

[heinous]

the most reliable way to avoid an "expensive paintball blender" is to get rid of the expensive. just saying. i mean look at you, even you did it by keeping the sa17.

maybe you can get some custom phantom parts and build one to your liking, then when you change your mind and want a retro you can just swap those upgrades to it since it is mostly phantom compatible?

[toymachine]

Originally Posted by heinous

does dukie's frame fit phantoms? he might be able to build one that way and it would be a true stock class gun while still in pistol form, all the while giving it the touch of exoticism that he seeks.

from my (limited) experience his bucket changer does come loose if you aren't careful. i'm thinking if it would do some good to have a kind of reverse wraparound grips so your palm doesn't apply friction directly on the bucket, lowering its chance to loosen... but it's not a huge problem regardless.

comfy as hell though, that frame.

not sure if that was a rhetorical question, but yes they do.

never actually played with one on a phantom, but my buddy up north raves and raves about it. He used lots of plumbers tape (and when I mean he used lots of mean exactly that - the guy is a little dyslexic - in the sense he's a genius w/o social skills) when installing the changer's adapter and hasn't ever seemed to have any problems, from what I hear at least.