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Old 02-05-2013, 12:02 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Rebuild help (SFL)

This seems to be like the place to go.

I recently bought back a Gen 4 SFL. I've got a leak on the front end, thinking from the bomb 3-way. However, I've also read in a few different places that a bad ram o-ring can seem like a leaking 3-way. I figure if I'm going to be buying o-rings for the 3-way, I might as well get some for the ram and fgp lpr. This is where I'm lost. Is there a good guide for rebuilding a ST ram or fgp lpr? Anybody know the o-ring sizes that I will need? I'd like to do it myself so that I know what to do in the future, should this happen again. Current setup is with the slider frame, ST plate, ST shoe, omega roller sear, newer ST frame.
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Thanks in advance. (also have this posted on CC)

Yes, the gun cycles correctly. It fires, then resets. The leak is unchanged if I pull and hold the trigger. I did not mess with the LPR pressure, but my tank is now empty.

Found some bomb 3-way orings on ebay, not the same as from Shocktech? I've also read ANS 3-way o-rings are similar.

Jay
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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If the leak doesn't change when you pull the trigger then its not the ram since you now changed the side the air is going in to. It is more likely the 3-way.

To find out for sure before you go crazy taking stuff apart get a large bucket of water and submerge the front of the gun in the water while its pressurized so you can pinpoint the leak. It will not harm anything, just make sure you dry it thoroughly after your done.
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Old 02-05-2013, 01:46 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlaser666 View Post
If the leak doesn't change when you pull the trigger then its not the ram since you now changed the side the air is going in to. It is more likely the 3-way.

To find out for sure before you go crazy taking stuff apart get a large bucket of water and submerge the front of the gun in the water while its pressurized so you can pinpoint the leak. It will not harm anything, just make sure you dry it thoroughly after your done.
Will do, once I get my tank aired up.

Jay
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:22 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Got the 3-way to seal.
The barbs are snug, not leaking.
The leak is coming out of the front end of the Ram, when the trigger is pulled and held back.
The gun cycles but won't always catch the lug and recock. I've tried adjusting the lug to no avail.

Thoughts?

Jay
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Old 02-08-2013, 09:50 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Not catching the lug could be because of 2 things:
- not enough pressure in the ram to push back the back block all the way all the time ( especially if its leaking)
- the 3way timing is set too short so its not giving the sear a chance to come up before the ram starts closing.

google ravi autococker timing guide to help you get it set up.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:42 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlaser666 View Post
Not catching the lug could be because of 2 things:
- not enough pressure in the ram to push back the back block all the way all the time ( especially if its leaking)
- the 3way timing is set too short so its not giving the sear a chance to come up before the ram starts closing.

google ravi autococker timing guide to help you get it set up.
I'd think it'd be more of the back block not going not going back all the way. I tried "extending" the timing (so it wasn't to short) and that did not change performance. I have read the guide, but thanks for the reminder.

Guy on CC said it might be a round lug having issues with a roller sear. Try a stiffer sear spring or square lug.

Jay
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Old 02-09-2013, 08:17 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The ram plunger oring is 009, I believe the smaller oring is 006. The ram can cause the 3way to leak if the 009 is shot and letting air thru to the other open end of the 3way. I sure sign of a bad 009 is if it leaks out of one side and the leak switches when the trigger is pulled and held. It sounds like your current ram leak could be solved by some simple loctite on the barb tho.

FGP has one oring on its reg piston and a Shrader valve. I cannot seem to get my FGP open right now, but the oring is looks to be around a 015/016 judging by the size of the FGP. The Shrader valve can be replaced with one from a car tire but a special tool is required to remove it. They both can be found at an automotive store for less than $10.

People say the only place to get the stock pink orings for the Bomb is Shocktech. I've used regular orings in mine before, but the trigger was a little stiff for a few cases.

It's hard to tell about it not cocking, too many variables. Typically if a gun is doing what you're describing and it's timing has been checked in both directions (I've had a few cockers do this and tightening the timing up actually stopped it), the LPR has a 'sweetspot' that it needs to be at. Too little pressure and it won't cock at all or too much pressure and the momentum is too great for the hammer to catch the lug. Try slowly messing with the LPR. You can also try adding a heavier sear spring. I'd also really suggest a square hammer lug, they give a nice clean feel to the trigger compared to a rounded lug.

Last edited by minimag03; 02-09-2013 at 08:24 PM.
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Turns out I was wrong (crow tastes good) and it was mostly a timing issue. The pump arm and ram still need shortening, but the cocking rod has been adjusted and the gun recocks fine now. Still not sure what lug is in there. You were also correct in that the ram leak was fixed with some thread sealer on the front barb.

I say mostly timing because I still need 3-way seals. They work unless they get really cold.

The pump arm is secured with loctite or something. Will probably have to take it off the front end to better break is loose. The gun cycles fine now, but I'd like to bolt to not go so far back as to prevent "rollbacks" or double feeds.

Jay
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Old 02-10-2013, 12:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JOESPUD27 View Post
The pump arm is secured with loctite or something. Will probably have to take it off the front end to better break is loose. The gun cycles fine now, but I'd like to bolt to not go so far back as to prevent "rollbacks" or double feeds.

Jay
Doing this can be tricky in my experience; how are you planning on doing it? Putting bumpers in the ram or just unscrewing the ram from the front block a little? I'm ashamed to say I've never used ram bumpers, but I've heard wonderful things about them shortening the cycle.
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Old 02-10-2013, 02:12 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Where the pump arm screws to the ram, it loctited. There is room for adjustment, but not able to move it.

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