mcarterbrown.com  

Ask The Experts You ask the tough questions

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 03-03-2013, 06:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
Flint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto

Quote:
Originally Posted by PistolRogue View Post
Single tail or tail-less bolts will CYCLE, however they're not shutting off the dump chamber or mechanically controlling the dwell, so the dump chamber is staying open (and losing efficiency) until you let go of the trigger every shot. This should also result in wild swings in velocity, so if you're not already running a dual tail o-ring bolt with a mech ion or eNMEy, you should be.

My question is, what would happen if someone were to build a dual tail o-ringed bolt with a smaller gap between the two o-rings, so that the mechanical dwell was even further reduced? I can't find the source anywhere (have been looking for days) but I remember reading a few years back how a dual tail o-ring bolt has something in the neighborhood of 20-25 MS of mechanical dwell. I know I've lowered dwell on an L6 bolted Ion to less than that with no ill results, so what if we narrowed the space between the o-rings so the mechanical dwell were, say, 15-18 MS?
But then there is a question, whether the narrowing of the gap, should be biased toward either of the oring, or centered on some specific point?
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 07:22 PM   #12 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
Deathwish_DW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: IL
Send a message via AIM to Deathwish_DW Send a message via Yahoo to Deathwish_DW

What if I told you that Jonathan is pretty much doing that right now :s
__________________
BECKER PAINTBALL
Becker(at)BeckerPaintball.com

Proud Dealer of: Bob Long - DLX - Ninja Paintball - GOG - Deadlywind - Valken


MCB Feedback 57+ (People don't really leave me feedback, lol :d)
PBN Feedback 314+
eBay Feedback 1906+
Deathwish_DW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2013, 07:25 PM   #13 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
Flint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deathwish_DW View Post
What if I told you that Jonathan is pretty much doing that right now :s
Trying to figure out the narrowing of the oring gap?
I would not be surprised.
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2013, 03:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
Flint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto

Speaking of adjusting the gap, what if the tail, or a section of the tail, is adjustable?
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-06-2013, 05:31 AM   #15 (permalink)
Official LL5 Dolphin-Dive
 
PistolRogue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jackson, NJ
Send a message via AIM to PistolRogue

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flint View Post
Speaking of adjusting the gap, what if the tail, or a section of the tail, is adjustable?
In all honesty, someone who's better on a lathe than I am (which doesn't take a lot) should be able to whip something like that up. I could see a small bolt back there with shims/spacers that could be used to adjust the dwell. I'm just not sure where the terminal limits of length would be, ie: where if you made it too short or too long it would cease to function or physically collide with the inside of the backcap.

Interested to see what Yoda comes up with. I keep debating with myself about getting one of his closed-bolt XE kits but at the same time I like the reliable performance of the open-bolt design, and as my eNMEy is intended as my SHTF, every other gun I own has broken down backup, it's important to me that it's as Murphy-proof as possible.
__________________
Jay AKA Rogue Reservoir Dogs Scenario Paintball Team- Our $#&* is RIGOROUS!
My Gear For SALE!
Check Out My Mod Threads : Pirate DSG - SA17 Mods - Simple/Cheap/Free TPX Mods - The 'Big Damn Hero' DRV
FEEDBACK
PistolRogue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2013, 04:29 PM   #16 (permalink)
MCB Member
 
y0da900's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Plattsburgh, NY

Adjusting the gap has nothing to do with the dwell, all it does is control at what point in the firing cycle the firing can is isolated from the air supply. Shortening the gap between the o-rings makes the firing can start refilling slightly sooner in the bolt retraction phase, but too close and the can will start refilling too early and will vent a little bit before the main firing seal in the bolt stop is sealed again. Smaller gap even than that and it won't seal at all. One of the bolts I am working on can mess with the dwell mechanically and the tail o-ring spacing is directly related to it, but it requires additional components to do it. Remove the extra pieces, and it isolates the dump chamber like the other multiple tail o-ring bolts.

Sure, any Ion bolt will work in a mech Ion - but not every bolt will work properly. Anything that doesn't isolate the dump chamber from the air supply will continue to vent when the trigger is held down, which leads to inefficiency and depending on your pressure and a few other factors the possibility of hot shots when held down.

Yes - devolumizing helps with efficiency, sometimes significantly. Bring the can or breech section (if not a classic style) to the hardware store and find some plastic tubing (nylon, vinyl, whatever) that fits snugly inside the can. Buy a foot of the stuff (should only cost a few bucks), and insert various length sections until you find the balance that you like best. Basically, at higher pressures the flow rate through the system is increased - sometimes enough so that it actually takes a lower total amount of energy to propel the ball at the same speed.

An SMAV can sometimes run well over 200psi. According to a conversation I had with Clippard, they recommend not running over 200psi because the internal seals have a tendency to start rolling and eventually tear when run at pressures above that. As a result of that conversation, I have recommended not running over 200psi because I don't want to tell people go ahead and have them end up with an unreliable kit. Personally, I've had a few that start to leak just over 200, and several that I've had near 300 without leaking at all. Same with a MAC 33 - had some that start leaking just above the 200psi rating, and others that I have run well in excess of 300psi with no leaking.

The only reason you would ever need an LPR on an Ion is if you devolumize it so damn much that the 3-way (mech or solenoid) can't handle the pressure anymore. The balancing in the system is entirely ratio based and scales directly with pressure.

The more efficient bolts you see in an Ion are not more efficient because they lower the pressure - they are able to lower the pressure because they are more efficient. Devolumize those systems and jack the pressure up and many of them become even more efficient (and faster).
y0da900 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2013, 01:48 AM   #17 (permalink)
Post Whore
 
Flint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Toronto

Thanks y0da, this certainly helps!
Flint is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

  mcarterbrown.com » Paintball » Ask The Experts

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:18 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO
© MCB Network LLC