Quality Differences in Brass Markers
I would like to k-frame a brass marker, but I am not sure about which marker to use as a base model. PMI-1, PGP, PGP2.... I have some opinions about looks but are there quality differences in brass guns?
I know that bore size, barrel length, and some options matter, but is there another difference? Because PGP2s were built later, would they have tighter tolerances or something?
Bore size is all the same. Barrel length is obvious.
Tolerances are all the sameish.
They changed in finish.. older sheridans have a better finish, later ones (all PGP2k's) are painted.
PMI1's have a centerfire bolt.. the air goes through the bolt like most guns today. Both PGP's have a rimfire bolt. The gas port is right in front of the flat faced bolt and blows up and blasts the ball out. It works fine but not quite as well as the PMI1.
The advantage is that the PGP's are shorter than the PMI1.
The PGP2k has one advantage over normal PGP's.. it has a quick change 12 gram changer built in. Not the fine threaded thing that all other sheridans have.
The top tube on the PGP2k has stupid plastic feed caps and stuff. You will want to customize your PGP 2k because those standard ones always break.
PGP2k's look goofy because the the slightly longer barrel...but PMI1's look goofy for the same reason.
The best gun is the PMI1 because the longer barrel and centerfire bolt will give you better efficiency. It is also longer and heavier, so it isn't so much like a pistol.
It also has a longer bottom tube which means the pump position will be more spread out for you.. That is more comfortable for some people, and less comfortable for others. The disadvantage is that the 12 gram changer plug has to have a metal shaft on it to reach down to press on the 12 gram itself, which means its a little more awkward to change 12 grams.
All are good, all are different. It depends what you want to do.
K frame.. I'd go with a PGP because thats a pistol trigger frame..and a PGP is more of a pistol.
PGP vs PGP2k is a tough call. I like the 12ie changer on the PGP2k but the feed tube needs to be upgraded to be used.
ALSO PGP2k's had an issue where the gas port was too far foward (or bolt was too far forward) and the ball would blow up in the gun because the gas all blasted right on the ball instead of behind it. You fix this issue by installing a button head screw on the front of your bolt..or JB welding a dime on the front of the bolt.. or really anything that pushes the ball forward.
Cooper T also made "pusher" bolts which fixed the problem very elegantly.
The PGP2k also included a velocity adjuster, and a superior bolt that would lock into the forward position. Basically a V shaped metal wedge would push 2 BB's out and secure it in the barrel..and when you pull on the back of the bolt (as in pumping) the V moves back and releases the bolt. It only adds like 1/5 of an inch of pump stroke but it means the pump doesn't move at all when it is in the forward position.
The speed demon bolt on PMI1's also works like that, I think, but not all PMI1's have that bolt type, many are just the plane simple bolt.
If anything, older guns are better because of the better finish. PGP2k's paint is cheapo compared to badass old matte black sheridans. Overall an older PGP is best. I like cartridge valves because they are easier to work with..but some people prefer the original type valve. I don't feel like explaining the difference, but the PGP2k will always have a cart valve, and the PGP will have one or the other.
For a K frame I'd go with a good looking original finish older PGP and get a "fasst changer" which is a quick change Co2 knob which threads onto the bottom tube and has a different cap that uses steeper thicker threads for faster 12G changes.
Your options are really endless in Sheridan land though..a lot of fun.
It really just comes down to what kind of configuration you want to run. If you want a nice short/compact SC pistol, PGP or PGP2K. If you want something with a longer barrel and more capacity (longer feed), go for one of the bigger bodies.
The PMI-1 and similar will probably be able to eek out a little more efficiency from a 12g, but other than that I can't really see any functional advantage.
I would prefer a pgp length with a kframe because it makes for an awesome pistol but that is personal preference mostly. Good efficiency can be had in most lengths. I have pulled 35 usable shots above 260 in a well tuned pgp.
Were this my dilemma, I'd look at a PPS Pug. Essentially a refined PGP/PMI-1, though it will cost quite a bit more than either.
Thanks for the reviews!
One more big question. The k-frame puts the grip behind the gun, and the regular handle is under the weight of the gun. Does the weight of a brass gun make the k-frame impossible to use as a true pistol? The PGP would be lighter, but would I just need to two hand it anyway for balance.
Can a PMI-1 style bolt work with the pgp or pgp2? Is that worth it?
I prefer the look of the pgp2 with speed gate, but I had no idea about the finish problem.
I don't find PGP's to be all that heavy to start with. Lighter than my Zeus at least...
Pmi1 bolts will not work in a pgp, they are too long. And with a pgp it still points well as a pistol. With a pmi length, itlf you try to use it one handed as a pistol it can get quite heavy.
Here is a little comparison between a PGP and P series
The weight is a little forward on all the guns, but they all point well...the Double Barrel is a little harder due to weight, but for a compactish marker, still isn't hard to one hand shoot it.
Hot damn Jebus! Quite the trio there.
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