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Old 03-24-2014, 11:54 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Ok, here is the deal:

S6, T2 or S6.5: one color of anno is $600, 2 colors of anno is $625 & 3 colors of anno is $650 (dusk or gloss is the same price)

Barrel kit is an extra $80 (it is closed bolt, you need a barrel kit and it is a good deal for the price)

Matching fittings are $30

Alum Panels are $43

Basically if you buy any CCM with the above options in 2 color anno, you are at approx $780 + shipping.

I just sold a beautiful T2, gloss brown/gloss light blue, 86 frame, t-grip pump, full sizer kit, 2 fronts (both 12" & 14") with matching fittings and panels for $650 shipped/paypal.

CCM's are the best available pump on the market, hands down and have the best customer support.

There are wait lists for S6 & S6.5 and T2's are trickling out. There have been times where there are wait list on everything.

It is pretty simple supply and demand...don't bash what you don't understand.

Also realize alot of times the price has some room to negotiate. Also, prices are up now with tax refunds. I saw a gloss black S6.5 w/ full barrel kit, shot blocker sell for $600 a few months ago. Also saw a S6 go for $550 in great condition, no extras. Sometimes cash is more important than a paintball marker.

Also the price to machine quality parts is not cheap.

If you don't want to spent that much on a CCM, there are cheaper options.

Also, CCM is not changing models like your electros, a new model each year kills the value of the prior year. Also, CCM supports their markers, unlike PE that only supports 5 years back. You go out to play, pull you CCM from the bag and it works. I can't count the number of times that players have problems with electros. Never an issue with my CCM.

If you are a decent player, you should be able to walk into any rec game and compete. The pump stroke is super light, the trigger pull is almost "electro-ish" and they point extremely well.

I have owned a S6 since 10/09 and luv it. Also have a S6.5. Since getting my S6, I pretty much only play pump. Pump play is a blast.

CCM has not dropped their prices. You have to look at the extras and the condition.

I can go out and play all day with my S6, probably shoot less than 350 rounds (500 max), spend $30 bucks, hang out with good friends and have a blast. I get just as many kills if not more with my S6 vs. any other markers. I have had plenty of mech markers and electros.

I got one of my friends into pump and he got 2 of his friends into pump, pump play is contagious.
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Originally posted by heinous: "sniper's gun always gets extra camera love"

Last edited by sniper97; 03-25-2014 at 12:05 AM.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:02 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I don't know if this is really an indictment of the used ccm market or the T2. The OP is making a good case for buying new. Once you decide you want a T2, the used market is kind of frustrating, but that is why you should buy it new.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:13 AM   #13 (permalink)
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IMHO, it seems like the OP is bashing the used CCM market and does not understand CCM's pricing structure. Everyone is free to ask whatever they want for a marker. If someone is willing to pay the price, it sells.

I have not seen CCM's as mis-price as the OP is posting. IMHO, there are not alot of used CCMs for sale right now. Also, it is tax refund season and you can not buy a S6 or S6.5 from CCM right now, simply supply and demand.

The used ones priced well are selling quickly, there are some that IMHO are "over priced". If I can buy a CCM in great shape and save a few bucks, I am probably willing to pay 80% of retail, maybe a little more if I want it.

Best time to buy is late summer/Fall, right before Christmas everyone wants $$$. Now is not a good time to buy if you want a deal.
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Originally posted by heinous: "sniper's gun always gets extra camera love"

Last edited by sniper97; 03-25-2014 at 12:24 AM.
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Old 03-25-2014, 12:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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i got my t2 last month ( 2 colors ). With every bell and whistle ( barrel kit, fittings, grip panels) straight from CCM including shipping my total was $806.55. So I can see why a used one is still upwards of 600 or more

Last edited by Salad Fingers; 03-25-2014 at 09:34 AM.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:15 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper97 View Post
Ok, here is the deal:

S6, T2 or S6.5: one color of anno is $600, 2 colors of anno is $625 & 3 colors of anno is $650 (dusk or gloss is the same price)

Barrel kit is an extra $80 (it is closed bolt, you need a barrel kit and it is a good deal for the price)

Matching fittings are $30

Alum Panels are $43

Basically if you buy any CCM with the above options in 2 color anno, you are at approx $780 + shipping.

I just sold a beautiful T2, gloss brown/gloss light blue, 86 frame, t-grip pump, full sizer kit, 2 fronts (both 12" & 14") with matching fittings and panels for $650 shipped/paypal.

CCM's are the best available pump on the market, hands down and have the best customer support.

There are wait lists for S6 & S6.5 and T2's are trickling out. There have been times where there are wait list on everything.

It is pretty simple supply and demand...don't bash what you don't understand.

Also realize alot of times the price has some room to negotiate. Also, prices are up now with tax refunds. I saw a gloss black S6.5 w/ full barrel kit, shot blocker sell for $600 a few months ago. Also saw a S6 go for $550 in great condition, no extras. Sometimes cash is more important than a paintball marker.

Also the price to machine quality parts is not cheap.

If you don't want to spent that much on a CCM, there are cheaper options.

Also, CCM is not changing models like your electros, a new model each year kills the value of the prior year. Also, CCM supports their markers, unlike PE that only supports 5 years back. You go out to play, pull you CCM from the bag and it works. I can't count the number of times that players have problems with electros. Never an issue with my CCM.

If you are a decent player, you should be able to walk into any rec game and compete. The pump stroke is super light, the trigger pull is almost "electro-ish" and they point extremely well.

I have owned a S6 since 10/09 and luv it. Also have a S6.5. Since getting my S6, I pretty much only play pump. Pump play is a blast.

CCM has not dropped their prices. You have to look at the extras and the condition.

I can go out and play all day with my S6, probably shoot less than 350 rounds (500 max), spend $30 bucks, hang out with good friends and have a blast. I get just as many kills if not more with my S6 vs. any other markers. I have had plenty of mech markers and electros.

I got one of my friends into pump and he got 2 of his friends into pump, pump play is contagious.
Not bashing CCM at all. And while their other markers are intriguing, the conversation's about the T2. It's the used market that seems to be insane. 3 color I could do without, and truthfully many of the used guns didn't have those. They were two tones. Barrel kits simply don't add to a used gun's overall price nor do cosmetics sorry. And some of the ones I mentioned didn't even have a kit. So it seems people want near new prices for their used guns......Guess it boils down to three things.
1. Supply and demand.
2. Slow build times on the new guns
3. Pumper agg lol.

High end guns like PE drop almost 150 bux per year of ownership, and they start out a lot higher than a T2.

If T2's don't drop in price, then it makes a whole lot more sense to get the color scheme I want brand spankin new and just wait.

It's just odd to me that for the first time, I'll be buying a new gun due to the fact that the used versions aren't dropping in price, and why would I pay that much money on a gun that has wear and tear on it....?

I was just wondering if I had missed something and those used versions had some sort of super duper mod or model rarity. Obviously not.

Also, I don't get the "handmade" argument either since other handmade in America guns like Palmer's have appropriate used pricing. Or maybe I'm missing something about that brand?
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:30 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Comparing pump resale to electro resale is apples to oranges. Pumps don't get dated, and the support/accessories for a pump are always available. The Phantom has been around for ever, and ten year old phantoms still sell for good prices.
The Palmers used market is the closest comparable to the CCM market (maybe the Dukie used market is more comparable), but Palmer's product is way different than the CCM product. The CCM product currently has much higher demand.
I always buy pumps and I always buy used. I can usually get back everything I paid for a marker when it is resold. So playing pump is cheaper two ways.
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Old 03-25-2014, 09:40 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I am going to disagree, a barrel kit, fitting & panels add to the price. I will pay more for a fancy CCM than a plain one. It may not matter to you, but I am sure most members are willing to pay extra for one with the extra's.

For my S6, I just ordered a 86 trigger frame and matching panel, just so it looks pretty.

With any open bolt marker, you will find that a barrel kit is a necessity, $80 for one with all the sizers is a good deal. The CCM barrel kit shoots just as good as a deadly wind.

I will say that some of the CCM markers are priced crazy high right now, but the lower ones sell quickly, there are really not a lot of CCM markers on the market right now.

PPS was the fad several years ago, resale is not as good right now.

Good luck on you T2 quest. If you get a new one or a lightly used one, you will be very happy.

I would get the quad rods to the t-grip, the original grip places the pump too close to the barrel, it is not comfortable, also the 86 trigger frame is my fav...and the barrel kit is a great buy, unless you have a freak/DW barrel and inserts.

I like the S6.5 better than the T2! And I had both...

Also, the problem with electros is that then next years model comes out and everyone wants it, so they sell last years model and it kills the prices. Also, since 2007 or so, the upgrades to the new Egos have been very minimal. And the lack of support after a Ego is 5 years old does not help either.

I am not going to say that CCM's are handmade, but to have anything machined at high tolerances is not cheap. I am sure each CCM is assembled by hand and tested prior to shipping. Once you have a CCM in your hand you will understand.
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Originally posted by heinous: "sniper's gun always gets extra camera love"

Last edited by sniper97; 03-25-2014 at 09:44 PM.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:00 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sniper97 View Post
I am going to disagree, a barrel kit, fitting & panels add to the price. I will pay more for a fancy CCM than a plain one. It may not matter to you, but I am sure most members are willing to pay extra for one with the extra's.

For my S6, I just ordered a 86 trigger frame and matching panel, just so it looks pretty.

With any open bolt marker, you will find that a barrel kit is a necessity, $80 for one with all the sizers is a good deal. The CCM barrel kit shoots just as good as a deadly wind.

I will say that some of the CCM markers are priced crazy high right now, but the lower ones sell quickly, there are really not a lot of CCM markers on the market right now.

PPS was the fad several years ago, resale is not as good right now.

Good luck on you T2 quest. If you get a new one or a lightly used one, you will be very happy.

I would get the quad rods to the t-grip, the original grip places the pump too close to the barrel, it is not comfortable, also the 86 trigger frame is my fav...and the barrel kit is a great buy, unless you have a freak/DW barrel and inserts.

I like the S6.5 better than the T2! And I had both...

Also, the problem with electros is that then next years model comes out and everyone wants it, so they sell last years model and it kills the prices. Also, since 2007 or so, the upgrades to the new Egos have been very minimal. And the lack of support after a Ego is 5 years old does not help either.

I am not going to say that CCM's are handmade, but to have anything machined at high tolerances is not cheap. I am sure each CCM is assembled by hand and tested prior to shipping. Once you have a CCM in your hand you will understand.
I understand your points and I don't disagree with the quality made part, but I don't think it should aid the marker (however nice) in bucking the trend.
In PE's guns the upgrades have actually been pretty significant, and their quality control is pretty good too. The market does demand something new each year, that's just the headonistic treadmill of most in demand items (look at Apple products.....). It's also how businesses stay afloat.The beauty of that is being able to pick up a great condition gun at 600 a few years after people were dropping 1200 on it. On a PE poppit gun the only thing that can really go wrong that you'd need to send it in for is a solenoid wearing out. That takes longer than 5 years (unless you're a case a day type lol) and even then swapping out a noid yourself isn't really all that hard. They do still sell spares for all of their guns. On a T2 the lifetime warranty is cool, but to be honest, it's pretty simple in it's operation. So a lifetime warranty really isn't needed unless parts start to oxidize or something? What would you really need to send one in for unless you're really rough on the pump and snap an arm or something? Would player stupidity be under warranty lol? And I agree about needing a sizer. I've already got a Python Kit, so that part's settled.

Thanks for the advice about the pump grip, I've got bigger hands, so I assume T-grip's the way to go.

Finally, why do people prefer the 86 over the 45 grip frame? Is it just easier on the wrists for pumping?
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Old 03-26-2014, 12:51 PM   #19 (permalink)
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86* frames bring the tank a little more under the gun
I find with the CCM 86* frame that it brings my wrist into a more upright position and makes it so that my pointer finger is parallel to the barrel (easier for me to intuitively shoot the marker).

Unfortunately CCMs are in demand right now and hold their value really well when people look at selling them. Best thing I could say is give the person an offer you think is fair and see if you and the seller can come to an agreement.

I love the 3 CCM markers (T2, J2, & J12) that I have and I won't be selling them anytime soon.
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Old 03-26-2014, 01:13 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'd sell my 1 of 5 woodland t2 for $1200......
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