Paintball

[Drum]

Originally Posted by Lrrpie-CT

Was that a factory feature?

Y'know, I can't remember, but I do not think it was. Maybe later it was... I seem to recall modifying my marker, but the mists of time have obscured this recollection substantially.

Sorry.

D.

[HP_Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by Drum

Finally, the question was not who made the first "functional" or the first "production" semi... it was who made the first and I am going to have to say Tippmann gets my nod.

At some point we are all going to be splitting hairs I suppose.

The Nightmare Semi (aka Eagle) was the first "Production" gun, meaning anyone could order one. But your right, they were all recalled, and while functional, they did not work very well. However, it would get my vote in that it does meet all the qualifications, though borderline.

The SMG-60 was full/auto only, but it didn't take long for people to figure out that if you pull the trigger slightly, it only fires semi/auto. Thus everyone added trigger stops. Did Tippmann ever add those from the factory? I'm not sure. The SMG-68 was semi/auto only in 1989.
If they did add the trigger stop, does that count as a "Functional Production Semi", or something custom? or retrofitted? Plus, the fact that it is magazine fed might imply that it is not "functional" in the modern sense.

The Camille was never production gun. The production version was called the Hurricane that came out in 1989. The Hurricane absolutely predates the 68-Special, PMI-3, and Golden Eagle though. The 68-Special is usually called the first "Functional Semi-auto", though the Hurricane CLEARLY predates it.

However, I would call the 68-Special the first "popular" semi-auto. Those things were EVERYWHERE in 1991-2. I saw more 68-Specials then any other gun, which is weird since they are virtually unheard of today.

Never saw or heard of a AGD Panther in those days... maybe it was another "custom" gun...

I neve heard of it either, until I saw it on the Automag video. Tom likes to claim it predates everything, but his abilty to "self promote" occationally clouds the truth. Neat looking though.

[Drum]

Another hair to split...

Wasn't the shortlived Eagle/Nightmare semi fed by the same horizontal tube as the Nightmare pump, or did it have a direct ("gravity") feed adapter?

Btw: My Hurricane #12 is dated by the shop as being made in December, 1989.

[DarkStar]

I don't think the panther was ever actually released as a production gun. It was a functional proto-type that AGD shelved and proceeded to work on the design of the mag.

-MR

[HP_Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by Drum

Wasn't the shortlived Eagle/Nightmare semi fed by the same horizontal tube as the Nightmare pump, or did it have a direct ("gravity") feed adapter?

The pictures all show a gravity feed, but since gravity feeds were such a common aftermarket mod for Nightmares (like Sheridans), that does not really show proof.

I seem to remember someone here telling a story about a team that tried using Nighmare semis at a tournament in the late 80s, and the spring feed kept jamming up? If that is the case, then the status of the Nightmare Semi as "first" is moot with the SMG-60.

Nick

[Drum]

I am fairly sure that the Nightmare Eagle that resides in the EMR museum has a top tube like a regular Nightmare. Weltman has an unmodified one also, I think.

I love this historical discussions. It is the only way we will ever get to the bottom of the question and keep everything straight.

D.

[HP_Lovecraft]

Hmmmm.... The Vintage Rex Ad shows a hopper, and that was before it was released.

However, if you follow the link, it makes a vague reference to "initial versions" that used the stock Nightmare body, and "improved versions" that had the welded feed.

So, it does imply that we are both correct, as there were apprently 2 different versions, though both seemed to function equally as bad..

nick

[Drum]

Looking at that ad pic has refreshed my recollection... the one in the EMR museum DOES have a direct feed.

My bad.

That said, I think the functionality criteria is not met with those guns.

Wasn't there supposed to be a semi-auto Phantom design that was based on the same, imperfect, early blowback design?

I don't think Mr. Casady was willing to launch such a dog upon the waters...

[bacci paintball]

Both of my Eagle Nightmares are press fit direct feeds although one was missing the feedneck and had it replaced by Rainman.
-Dan

[c6quad]

Originally Posted by Drum

, but the mists of time have obscured this recollection substantially.

yeah, that and a cloud of green smoke. lol...