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Old 02-13-2008, 11:19 AM   #21 (permalink)
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My cocker actually seems more accurate to me. I don't know why, but the first time I shot it (using the old-school stock 10" barrel), it was dead-on. And that was without a bore-match.
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Interesting...

I do think that accuracy is defined by;

1. Paint/Barrel match
2. Reciprocating Mass
3. Velocity Consistancy
4. Paint Roundness Consistancy
5. Barrel Quality

Maybe you should let me shoot your cocker to verify
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:53 PM   #23 (permalink)
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....so ive been using a large, heavy gun thats the biggest pain in the world to clean and maintain because i was under the false idea that it was more accurate. wow. well i geuss im gonna go get a mini now.......
So you will get a light weight gun that, you will be scared to run into stuff in fear it will break.
Any gun is a pain to clean & maintain , I can stand coming home and trying to clean all my stuff after a day of play.

Never got used to the mini myself , felt more like a woman or a little kids gun .... but hey it might work for you.
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Old 02-13-2008, 12:57 PM   #24 (permalink)
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What, you don't trust me? :P

There's no reason to be so disappointed in a Free Flow 'cocker. They are amazing markers. I guess you just don't appreciate 'cockers.

But there are reasons 'cockers are more accurate than your A-5. Blowback markers tend to have a good amount of kick, which affects your shot, where 'cockers (while still having a little more kick than say a spooler) cycle a lot more smoothly. This allows for greater gun control, increasing accuracy. Also vital with closed bolt markers is barrel to paint matching to prevent roll outs. This also attributes to more accuracy.
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Last edited by Magoo; 02-13-2008 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 02-13-2008, 08:43 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by HP_Lovecraft View Post
WGP phased out its entire autococker line, with the exception of the "SR". Instead WGP is focusing on blowbacks, and spool-driven guns.

Basically, K2 has reduced "WGP" to a brand name, and not much else.
That would be a point except that it seems that a significant part of, if not most of, in-house design and development work went to that autococker. Much of the advertising dollars and hype are going there too.

The lower-end stuff was outsourced, the mg-7 for example was a completely purchased design.

So contrary to what it looks like, dig a little deeper and WGP is still very much about autocockers.
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Old 02-13-2008, 10:44 PM   #26 (permalink)
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That would be a point except that it seems that a significant part of, if not most of, in-house design and development work went to that autococker.
WGP no longer makes traditional cockers anymore (mech, electro, or snipers).

Yes, the SR is a modernized version, though it completely lacks all the things that made the cocker unique. Plus, for all that "in house" design, they are still made in China at the Brass Eagle factory. In that regard, they ARE a brand name, and not much else.

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Old 02-14-2008, 02:04 AM   #27 (permalink)
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WGP no longer makes traditional cockers anymore (mech, electro, or snipers).

Yes, the SR is a modernized version, though it completely lacks all the things that made the cocker unique.
If you mean outdated, clunky design, good riddance. Other than that, the SR is as traditional as any other cocker. Even more traditional than many high end fullbodies these days, even, with the mechanical valvetrain.

I will never, ever accept the elitist old-timer view that evolution and modernization of products is necessarily bad. As an old-timer myself, I disdain such closed-mindedness.

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Plus, for all that "in house" design, they are still made in China at the Brass Eagle factory. In that regard, they ARE a brand name, and not much else.

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Last edited by drg; 02-14-2008 at 02:11 AM.
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Old 02-14-2008, 02:17 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I agree with drg on this one. It's like the "Trilogies aren't real 'cockers!" argument. Please. Define autococker for me. An autococker is a paintball gun with a pneumatic ram that actuates a backblock, cocking back a hammer. No more, no less. The Trilogy is a paintball gun with a pneumatic ram that cocks a hammer. The SR is a paintball gun that has a pneumatic ram that cocks a hammer. How are they not traditional 'cockers?

Disclaimer: The definition of "autococker" was simplified.
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Old 02-14-2008, 03:43 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I agree with drg on this one. It's like the "Trilogies aren't real 'cockers!" argument. Please. Define autococker for me. An autococker is a paintball gun with a pneumatic ram that actuates a backblock, cocking back a hammer. No more, no less. The Trilogy is a paintball gun with a pneumatic ram that cocks a hammer. The SR is a paintball gun that has a pneumatic ram that cocks a hammer. How are they not traditional 'cockers?

Disclaimer: The definition of "autococker" was simplified.
I'm even more liberal than that... autococker refers to the form factor. mQ cockers obviously are still cockers.
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Old 02-14-2008, 01:49 PM   #30 (permalink)
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If you mean outdated, clunky design, good riddance. Other than that, the SR is as traditional as any other cocker. Even more traditional than many high end fullbodies these days, even, with the mechanical valvetrain.
You have mistaken my opinion.

You are correct that the SR is better then the traditional cocker in every way. I hated the clunky moving parts, and external hoses. Traditional cockers looked like a pump gun that had pneumatics strapped on...

My point was that the "Autococker" that everyone thinks about when they hear the word "autococker" is no longer made by WGP. Its gone.

To say that the "SR is a traditional autococker" is not completely accurate. WGP specifically attacked "Cocker clone" companies over the basis that it had trademarked the "look" of a Cocker, which included the external pneumatics, and rear moving block. These specifics were created in order to differentiate Cockers, from Palmer guns (which predate cockers).

But yes, the SR cockers are still guns that "cock a hammer using pneumatics". So on that definition alone, then they still are cockers, though that definition excludes any mQ based system.

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