Why won't my Ion fire?

sdawg · 03-05-2008, 02:31 AM

EDIT: To save you the trouble of reading this entire thread, the answer to my question seems to be that the sail o-ring was not creating a seal between the front and rear chambers of the Ion's body.

Detailed explanation of why this was the problem.

==

I am really stumped. I've got a long thread over on PBN about this problem, and I thought I might pose this question to the MCB community.

I built my own Ion from scratch. I'm using an APE Rampage board and a Deadlywind Hollowpoint bolt with a New Designz body and Ion-thread breech. It used to have a 360 QEV but now has a clippard QEV.

It used to work fine. Suddenly this past weekend, it wont fire. Instead it makes a "chuffing" sound and the bolt either moves forward only slightly or not at all.

It's not the battery - I'm using a rechargeable that is charged to 10.32v

It's not the dwell. I've turned the dwell up to 30 ms, and the chuffing only gets louder.

It's not the input pressure. I've gotten 280 at 120psi with 12ms dwell. I'm using a CP shorty reg that I just rebuilt/lubed. The gauge indicates that it is putting out consistent pressure. when the chuffing occurs, the gauge barely moves.

I'm using the new Deadlywind Hollowpoint aluminum bolt stalk that is self-centering and does not need locktite.

All bolt and bolt-stalk o-rings have Dow 33.

There are no leaks anywhere. I can't find any obstructions anywhere that I can see (in tubes, fittings, or threaded holes in the body).

What would prevent the bolt from moving forward? As in, the bolt does not appear to budging one millimeter when I pull the trigger and hear the "chuff" sound. It seems like the bolt is stuck somehow and 150psi of force is not enough to budge it. That seems very unlikely.

Does anyone know how to test whether a clippard QEV is defective or not?

What are the likely points of failure that I am not considering?

What's especially strange to me is that it worked for about 50 shots when I replaced the QEV today. Then, it suddenly started chuffing again.

Help.

HW bolt firing sporadically. Too much grease? - PbNation

DeTrevni · 03-05-2008, 02:35 AM

Be prepared for a bunch of "CUZ ITS AN ION!!1!" or similar comments.

Are there any air-path obstructions? I don't really know much about spoolers...

ceverhart · 03-05-2008, 04:03 AM

Never trust a paintball gauge, switch out in line with a known good reg to try first as this sounds like reg creep to me. It does not take too much of a spike to shut off an Ion

esp with you saying-

I was just guessing, because yesterday I was at the field and shot about a hopper with no problem, then the next game, it started chuffing.

I got home and regreased the bolt and it worked for a few shots, then started chuffing.

and

Well, I replaced the 360 QEV with a virtue QEV.

I thought I had fixed my problem, but then after about 50-60 shots, the chuffing came back.

pizzaluvr · 03-05-2008, 04:17 AM

I know your using a rechargable, but those fail too. Try a fresh 9 volt.

Try the stock bolt and see if that works. If not, try the Hollowpoint bolt and then try the stock Banjo.

aqua_scummm · 03-05-2008, 05:43 AM

He probably doesn't have a stock bolt, if it's brand new.

Remove the bolt and barrel, look through the body, see if the aluminum has warped at all. This can hold the bolt in place, even teh slightest bulge will wreck your bolts travel path.

pizzaluvr · 03-05-2008, 05:47 AM

Oh, didn't notice that.. sorry. If you have it, try that.

pillage · 03-05-2008, 09:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeTrevni

Be prepared for a bunch of "CUZ ITS AN ION!!1!" or similar comments.

Are there any air-path obstructions? I don't really know much about spoolers...

Similar comments:
Because the Gardners just filed for a patent on "firing" and you have not bought a license.
Because Adam and Billy heard someone built an Ion without them, so they took off their aluminum foil, alien laser deflecting hats and thought some evil thoughts into your general direction.

cockerpunk · 03-05-2008, 10:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pillage

Similar comments:
Because the Gardners just filed for a patent on "firing" and you have not bought a license.
Because Adam and Billy heard someone built an Ion without them, so they took off their aluminum foil, alien laser deflecting hats and thought some evil thoughts into your general direction.

good starting places for troubleshooting this issue.

i am dead serious

sdawg · 03-05-2008, 10:45 AM

well, this morning, I checked all the internal parts. If there are any deformed parts, I can't see them with the naked eye. The bolt seems to move smoothly back and forth when I push it with my finger.

I aired it up with dwell at 30ms and pressure at 150 and it fired about 20 shots normally and then started chuffing again.

I am just going around in circles.

The microgauge is brand new and does not show any evidence of spiking. What could be wrong with the regulator that could lead to this problem? I tried unscrewing the rear banjo from the body and aired up the gun, and air seems to be flowing freely to the rear banjo.

There do not appear to be any deformities or obstructions in the breech.

If not low dwell, low pressure, or a battery, what can cause bolt stick in an Ion?

PS So far PBN is beating MCB on maturity levels.

sdawg · 03-05-2008, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ceverhart

Never trust a paintball gauge, switch out in line with a known good reg to try first as this sounds like reg creep to me. It does not take too much of a spike to shut off an Ion.

Could you explain more about what this means exactly? How would a spike shut off an Ion?

03-05-2008, 02:31 AM	#1 (permalink)
sdawg MCB Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas	Why won't my Ion fire? EDIT: To save you the trouble of reading this entire thread, the answer to my question seems to be that the sail o-ring was not creating a seal between the front and rear chambers of the Ion's body. Detailed explanation of why this was the problem. == I am really stumped. I've got a long thread over on PBN about this problem, and I thought I might pose this question to the MCB community. I built my own Ion from scratch. I'm using an APE Rampage board and a Deadlywind Hollowpoint bolt with a New Designz body and Ion-thread breech. It used to have a 360 QEV but now has a clippard QEV. It used to work fine. Suddenly this past weekend, it wont fire. Instead it makes a "chuffing" sound and the bolt either moves forward only slightly or not at all. It's not the battery - I'm using a rechargeable that is charged to 10.32v It's not the dwell. I've turned the dwell up to 30 ms, and the chuffing only gets louder. It's not the input pressure. I've gotten 280 at 120psi with 12ms dwell. I'm using a CP shorty reg that I just rebuilt/lubed. The gauge indicates that it is putting out consistent pressure. when the chuffing occurs, the gauge barely moves. I'm using the new Deadlywind Hollowpoint aluminum bolt stalk that is self-centering and does not need locktite. All bolt and bolt-stalk o-rings have Dow 33. There are no leaks anywhere. I can't find any obstructions anywhere that I can see (in tubes, fittings, or threaded holes in the body). What would prevent the bolt from moving forward? As in, the bolt does not appear to budging one millimeter when I pull the trigger and hear the "chuff" sound. It seems like the bolt is stuck somehow and 150psi of force is not enough to budge it. That seems very unlikely. Does anyone know how to test whether a clippard QEV is defective or not? What are the likely points of failure that I am not considering? What's especially strange to me is that it worked for about 50 shots when I replaced the QEV today. Then, it suddenly started chuffing again. Help. HW bolt firing sporadically. Too much grease? - PbNation __________________ Everybody: Let's ease up on the red loctite, 'kay? Thanks. Feedback Last edited by sdawg; 03-06-2008 at 01:42 AM..

03-05-2008, 02:35 AM	#2 (permalink)
DeTrevni Now rockin' the Dux! Join Date: Sep 2006	Be prepared for a bunch of "CUZ ITS AN ION!!1!" or similar comments. Are there any air-path obstructions? I don't really know much about spoolers... __________________ 45 people like me thus far, and none don't!

03-05-2008, 04:03 AM	#3 (permalink)
ceverhart Active Member Join Date: Mar 2006	Never trust a paintball gauge, switch out in line with a known good reg to try first as this sounds like reg creep to me. It does not take too much of a spike to shut off an Ion esp with you saying- I was just guessing, because yesterday I was at the field and shot about a hopper with no problem, then the next game, it started chuffing. I got home and regreased the bolt and it worked for a few shots, then started chuffing. and Well, I replaced the 360 QEV with a virtue QEV. I thought I had fixed my problem, but then after about 50-60 shots, the chuffing came back. __________________ http://www.mcarterbrown.com/forums/f...-feedback.html

03-05-2008, 04:17 AM	#4 (permalink)
pizzaluvr Post Whore Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Arkansas	I know your using a rechargable, but those fail too. Try a fresh 9 volt. Try the stock bolt and see if that works. If not, try the Hollowpoint bolt and then try the stock Banjo. __________________ MCB Feedback +26/-0 PBN Feedback +11/-0 Ought Nine Team Sale, Rapper, Legend, Ions, Vlo's, Magna, Gear I ball for Team Fracture B&E Paintball --- Wild World Paintball

03-05-2008, 05:43 AM	#5 (permalink)
aqua_scummm MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Los Angeles	He probably doesn't have a stock bolt, if it's brand new. Remove the bolt and barrel, look through the body, see if the aluminum has warped at all. This can hold the bolt in place, even teh slightest bulge will wreck your bolts travel path. __________________ My choice is what I chose to do, and if I'm causin' no harm, it shouldn't bother you. Your choice is who you chose to be, and if you're causin' no harm, then you're alright with me.

03-05-2008, 05:47 AM	#6 (permalink)
pizzaluvr Post Whore Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Arkansas	Oh, didn't notice that.. sorry. If you have it, try that. __________________ MCB Feedback +26/-0 PBN Feedback +11/-0 Ought Nine Team Sale, Rapper, Legend, Ions, Vlo's, Magna, Gear I ball for Team Fracture B&E Paintball --- Wild World Paintball

03-05-2008, 10:45 AM	#9 (permalink)
sdawg MCB Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Texas	well, this morning, I checked all the internal parts. If there are any deformed parts, I can't see them with the naked eye. The bolt seems to move smoothly back and forth when I push it with my finger. I aired it up with dwell at 30ms and pressure at 150 and it fired about 20 shots normally and then started chuffing again. I am just going around in circles. The microgauge is brand new and does not show any evidence of spiking. What could be wrong with the regulator that could lead to this problem? I tried unscrewing the rear banjo from the body and aired up the gun, and air seems to be flowing freely to the rear banjo. There do not appear to be any deformities or obstructions in the breech. If not low dwell, low pressure, or a battery, what can cause bolt stick in an Ion? PS So far PBN is beating MCB on maturity levels. __________________ Everybody: Let's ease up on the red loctite, 'kay? Thanks. Feedback

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search