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Old 06-20-2008, 07:54 PM   #21 (permalink)
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If you reduce hammer weight, you increase spring tension. If you increase hammer weight, you reduce spring tension. It all balances out to be the same force, except that the lighter hammer is more easily pushed back by the valve spring once it expends that opening force.

Yes, bounce is a symptom of too heavy a hammer, but it isn't the only way in which the system loses efficiency in that situation.
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:16 PM   #22 (permalink)
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so it seems then that all a light hammer does is eliminate the bounce to improve efficiency

so how could proper power tube size or dwell(and possibly valve opening distance) affect efficiency?

to remove bounce in snipers a longer stem and softer cup seal material helps could this also work in a nelson? it would be easy to add a spacer behind the hammer, and to also change the cup seal material.


also in my 2000 sniper2, with stock springs i would only get 18 shots from a 12 gram, then i switched to a FreeFlow tungsten hammer and the free flow main spring, it then got 25 shots, could the extra weight allow for a lighter main spring so the valve spring closes the valve quicker help in nelsons?
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Old 06-20-2008, 08:22 PM   #23 (permalink)
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powertube sizes, its mostly for volumetric efficiency. larger inside diameter means more volume for the gas jet to expand. smaller diameter means higher pressure for gas to jet at, altho it seems to depend on the design of the "venturis" on the backside of it (inside the valve body) 2 hole straight design into a single outlet, such as what the nelsons came with, didnt flow as high as the Lapco and CCI's 3 hole designs from what i could see...and CCI's powertube is shorter, and has the large inside diameter, so theyre already pretty much effecient in phantoms, but again, it depends on how good the springing is, and also on how heavy the hammer is.
i;ve tested this version before, a smallest possible inside diameter, 3 hole venturi, stiffest valve spring possible, relatively strong main spring, and stock heavy hammer, it netted me 40ish shots on a 12gram dropout, because less volume in system meant more shots per 12ie, but it seems that on some people, the #6 tube (largest volume possible in a powertube) did much better.....so im not quite sure how it works yet.
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Old 06-20-2008, 09:46 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CamoDeafie View Post
powertube sizes, its mostly for volumetric efficiency. larger inside diameter means more volume for the gas jet to expand. smaller diameter means higher pressure for gas to jet at, altho it seems to depend on the design of the "venturis" on the backside of it (inside the valve body) 2 hole straight design into a single outlet, such as what the nelsons came with, didnt flow as high as the Lapco and CCI's 3 hole designs from what i could see...and CCI's powertube is shorter, and has the large inside diameter, so theyre already pretty much effecient in phantoms, but again, it depends on how good the springing is, and also on how heavy the hammer is.
i;ve tested this version before, a smallest possible inside diameter, 3 hole venturi, stiffest valve spring possible, relatively strong main spring, and stock heavy hammer, it netted me 40ish shots on a 12gram dropout, because less volume in system meant more shots per 12ie, but it seems that on some people, the #6 tube (largest volume possible in a powertube) did much better.....so im not quite sure how it works yet.
You pretty much figurerd out what Mike has known all along.
What Mike did was develop a perfect balllance between performance, and efficiency.
Not that we can't exceed on what he's started. If not only for giggles at best, which is why we've all gatherd here (hot thread) so we can again as we have so many times before (stopp laughing B) continue to push the envolope once more.

Shmitty mentioned volume... Good venue when efficiency is a concern.
He also mention a bucket changer, rather then a dropout too.
Simple opproach is to bobbing a valve, then addind a bucket directly to the now bobbed valve. This would maintain a more respectfull SC approach rather than to the use of a drop out, and possibly achieving an even better effieciency count program when combined with the multitude options relating to the phisiological make up relating to pneumatic tools. Such as a paintball gun.
Albeit a Nelson or a Sheridan based platform. They all rely on the same principal.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:15 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Well still didn't answer my question... why does it seem that the #6 tube gets better performance as opposed to 4,2 and #0 tubes? I run an 007 with 12gram grip..granted there are some things I could do to make it better...such as the spyder cupseal idea, and maybe shorten the pierce assembly's "stem" but I was able to get 35ish shots on a 12gram with a 6 tube and a guesstimated spring combo, bone stock internals
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:33 PM   #26 (permalink)
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maybe because the air transfers more energy to the ball when the output matches the projectile more closely?
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:44 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I think when it comes to powertubes, its a simple matter of high flow being better for energy transfer. I'd imagine that small diameter tubes would be great for running straight liquid.
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:45 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CamoDeafie View Post
Well still didn't answer my question... why does it seem that the #6 tube gets better performance as opposed to 4,2 and #0 tubes? I run an 007 with 12gram grip..granted there are some things I could do to make it better...such as the spyder cupseal idea, and maybe shorten the pierce assembly's "stem" but I was able to get 35ish shots on a 12gram with a 6 tube and a guesstimated spring combo, bone stock internals
The numbers you post on how efficient your 007 are not as impressive as you might think.
I had one that boasted well over 45 shots. Might have more to do with the tight bore. Not all bores are the same I guess.
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mailmanmike Since Monday! That's more than 4 hours though, so according to those cialis ads I should see my doctor.
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splattttttt I wasn't goin to google "chubbin" because I assumed it had to do with fat. The lard type, not the fun stuff. But what ever feelings Jeff's experiencing, then they must be of the fun like stuff...
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Old 06-20-2008, 10:52 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Running CO2, wouldn't you want to allow for a larger transfer hole to allow for the CO2 to expand a little more than running a super restricted hole that would retard expansion and promote more liquid being used?
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Old 06-21-2008, 03:24 AM   #30 (permalink)
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i know im not getting decent numbers, the springs i have are all un-colored...which entails that i buy spring kit for phantom/nelson...
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