Paintball

[russc]

Originally Posted by brycelarson

the 14 pod mil-sim scenario guy who shoots 3 cases a day of play. I'm not knocking them - if they like playing that way - and are willing to put a hopper into a bush 250' away because they think a guy might be in there - then the flatline / apex is a perfect tool for them.

I'll knock them - that's a dumb *** way to play paintball.

[drg]

Originally Posted by cockerpunk

so did the pet rock

And it worked!

[drg]

Originally Posted by brycelarson

well just because something sells doesn't mean it's good - nor does it mean it's effective. However, most of the flatline / apex guys tend to like to dump paint. You know - the 14 pod mil-sim scenario guy who shoots 3 cases a day of play. I'm not knocking them - if they like playing that way - and are willing to put a hopper into a bush 250' away because they think a guy might be in there - then the flatline / apex is a perfect tool for them.

Yes that's my point. Someone who dumps paint may find the trajectory difference, however slight, worthwhile ... because it IS noticeable, even if not as reliable as low-volume shooters would like.

So really ... myth confirmed/plausible.

[agentSmith]

So, a perfectly tuned cooper setup may give some increase in range, but at the expense of the grouping size left to right - a poor trade off I think - and one that seems to hold true for other ball spin systems.

It's a trade off for sure, but the judgement of 'good' or 'poor' is a personal one with no call for sneering, what you think would change if you played somewhere else.
Flatlines, Apex's are common at Hell Survivors and there's even(thanks to me) a Cooper-T PUMP on the field most of the time, not because we're stoopid but because that 3" inches of change in trajectory, translated under overhanging branches allows you to engage 30 FEET further away than someone with a traditional barrel with a higher arc. Welcome to the jungle, citydude! You can shoot alot of inaccurate paintballs at someone while they run 30 feet, unable to shoot back.
I've seen many smarmy pump snobs get rolled up big time, though if you guys really have as much skill as you say(which I'm sure you do), I'd guess you'd do fine against the mere 1500-2000 Yellow players we'll be facing tomorrow.



Heh, heh no one at HS has a conversation about 'why the flatline', but that's us and our place. From your description a flatline doesn't seem necessary where you play, so perhaps the distance under overhang factor never occurred to you.

Whenever I hear people(using oddball gear of their own), step on someone else's game I remember good old Shaw:

BRITANNUS (shocked).
Caesar: this is not proper.

THEODOTUS (outraged).
How!

CAESAR (recovering his self-possession).
Pardon him. Theodotus: he is a barbarian, and thinks that the customs of his tribe and island are the laws of nature.

Rob

[brycelarson]

Originally Posted by drg

So really ... myth confirmed/plausible.

Yes, myth confirmed, however at a scale much less than claimed.

Claim of large distance increase - busted.

[brycelarson]

Originally Posted by russc

I'll knock them - that's a dumb *** way to play paintball.

I tend to agree - but I know some people like it, so I'm going to stay impartial. (And they make great single shot elimination targets - which always makes me smile... without easy targets this game would be less fun. )

[drg]

Originally Posted by brycelarson

Claim of large distance increase - busted.

Hate to be the stickler about this one but that is an extrapolated conclusion which you did not actually test, nor illustrate (i.e. show your work). Exactly how much distance does ballistics tell us 2" at 50' with a projectile with a velocity of ??? and a muzzle velocity of 280 fps amounts to?

Does it necessarily mean a flat shot? Does it matter?

[HP_Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by drg

Hate to be the stickler about this one but that is an extrapolated conclusion which you did not actually test......

That was my conclusion as well.
They showed the effect does work with a limited statistical set of information.

To make a more specific conclusion, they were need a large set to figure out the variables. At this point, all we have is conjecture towards what really effects the ball, and what doesnt.

Plus, the reference to Myth Busters probobly doesnt help, since we are trying to use a scientific approach.

[agentSmith]

Originally Posted by brycelarson

Yes, myth confirmed, however at a scale much less than claimed.

Claim of large distance increase - busted.

Allow me to doubly redundantly reiterate:

because that 3" inches of change in trajectory, translated under overhanging branches allows you to engage 30 FEET further away than someone with a traditional barrel with a higher arc.

Claim of 'busting distance increase' at someone else's field other than the ONE you seem to have ever played at, Bryce - Busted

It definitely gives increased range under overhanging branches and in the woods in general, I don't understand why that's so hard to accept?

It doesn't MATTER that your regular barrel will shoot the same 120' as mine.
If your balls are breaking in overhead branches as we stand 70' apart and mine are hitting you over and over and over as I laugh hysterically, I have more range. THAT's real world and THAT's more range.

So investigate maximum distance if it interests you, but maximum range is what matters to the intended real world and maximum range depends far more on terrain than firing method, experience or ego.
On a more humorous note Bryce, the fact that you can claim impartiality and call flatliners "easy targets" in the same post doesn't bolster your credibility.


Rob

[brycelarson]

personal attacks don't help the discussion. I've played at plenty of fields, heavy wood to speedball.

see the smiley face - sorry if I was unclear, but it was a joke.

I would like to challenge you to set up the test you're describing - it should be easy. set up a target - roughly human sized, say a barrel. put it in a place where only you can hit it with a Cooper T bolt and then have other people try to hit it with a standard bolt.

shoot some video or post up some results. I'm very serious here, if it's that easy to prove, then do it.