Paintball

[greenmtnphantom]

So I spotted the thread on converting a VM to liquid and I thought to myself

Why run a paintball gun on liquid (pros/cons)?
What guns run on liquid, can run well on liquid?

[Schmitti]

You can run a phantom on liquid... which is pretty much what you do by running with a dropout changer.

Semis... pretty much the VM, Z, Tippmann's are made to run on liquid. There are others that would work but would need to be tuned.

Pumps can do it but need to be tuned.

E

[Murph]

Well, pre-98 custom Tippmanns can run liquid. I wouldnt' suggest it on on A-5, X-7 or 98c. They went to a plastic powertube that I have seen blow up when the local field sold off the old siphon tanks.

[Party of A-5]

I've ran my A-5 on liquid without problems but I used the JCS metal powertube.

[HP_Lovecraft]

First, thing about the problems with Co2-

When you shoot, some of the liquid has to boil off to convert to gas. That makes the co2 colder, and lowers the pressure. This creates a "shoot down effect" when you rapid fire.

Likewise, ambient temperature also effects pressure. Lower FPS in the cold. Higher when warm. This means hot-gun penalties in summer, and guns that do not function in the winter.

A liquid gun does not have either problem.
First, by forcing the liquid co2 into the valve, this means that liquid boils to gas IN THE BARREL and not the tank. So, no matter how fast you fire, the tank will never chill, and the FPS will always be the same.

Second, the valve will be putting a fixed amount of liquid co2, not gas, into the breech. Liquid is far less compressable then gas, so the pressure in the tank can be anywhere from 400-1500psi, and the same amount of liquid will enter the breech when the gun fires. This means FPS will never spike, or drop. In fact, it will be extremely consistent. Better then using a regular.

The problems, though, is that you can not easily use pneumatics (ie rams, 3-ways, regs, etc). So, no Cockers or Blazers. Blowbacks work extremely well, but modern blowbacks are made very cheaply, and tend to crack when they come in contact with liquid co2 (ie Tippmann powertubes). Some spyders will cycle to fast for the sear to catch, and the cupseal is too poor in quality. Lastly, you usually need a good 3-5 shots to fully charge the valve with liquid. This makes it tricky to use a pump, especially if you don't fire very much.

Generally, it is safe to assume that nearly all early-mid 90s blowbacks can run a siphon. Near the late 90s is when the industry moved towards cheap HPA instead, allowing the products to use cheaper, non-liquid friendly components. IE The Model-98 can run liquid, while the 98-Custom can not.

[greenmtnphantom]

Ok so there are som actually really nice benefits to offset the lower efficency then ok thanks

[HP_Lovecraft]

Originally Posted by greenmtnphantom

Ok so there are som actually really nice benefits to offset the lower efficency then ok thanks

The VM I talked about was a special case. It was just an ineffecient gun to begin with. Still, at least to me, the benefits were definetly worth it.

Other guns are not so bad though. Nearly all the Tippmanns ran siphon tanks from the factory in the 90s. You might see 800 shots per 20oz, which is about the same with a regular tank. The Montneels were tuned for liquid, and could manage 1200/20oz.

Running liquid definetly has its own issues. No propellant system is perfect, but to me, its fantastic. Never having to worry about FPS, or temps, or psi, or anything.

[greenmtnphantom]

Thank you fro clarifying that HP

[hmudd13]

I run my Bushy SI on liquid. It just seems to love it.

[bond commander bond]

Is a 68 carbine supposed to work on liquid?

I have a carbine and I don't seem to be able to get a good velocity.