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Old 04-03-2006, 12:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Nelson cocking methods

I know that there are two ways to c-ock a Nelson-based gun.
One has the pump handle having two arms attached to the sides of the bolt.
The other has one arm down low, almost under the bolt.
What are these two methods called?
And what are the pros/cons for each?

I am asking these questions because I know nothing of Nelsons, just Sheridans.
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Old 04-03-2006, 01:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skipjack289
I know that there are two ways to c-ock a Nelson-based gun.
One has the pump handle having two arms attached to the sides of the bolt.
The other has one arm down low, almost under the bolt.
What are these two methods called?
And what are the pros/cons for each?

I am asking these questions because I know nothing of Nelsons, just Sheridans.
Dual or single pump arms that access the bolt via milled slots of the side of the gun are called "side cocking". Similiar to say a Grey Ghost, Bush master, ect. This is the most common.

Then you have what is called "under cocking" which is a rod or arm that enters the gun under the body...through the frame. Think Phantom, hornet, ect.

There are only a few pros/cons to each which usually cancel one another out. Under cocking usually means that there is no exposed bolt...meaning no dirt is able to enter and muck up the internals. Lapco basically deleted this problem on thier older pumps by extending the pump arm past the cocking slot...it covered it up even in the forward position. Regular side cocking pumps will leave this slot open exposing the bolt to grit.

Every decent pump will come with "anti-kink" internals. Dual pump arms were created to combat this early on. They would help the bolt and hammer to not "kink" so the stroke was smoother. A single pump arm combined with anti-kink internals is all you need.

-Jake
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Last edited by kidneythief; 04-03-2006 at 01:25 AM.
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Old 04-04-2006, 09:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Thanks for your response. It does clarify some things for me.
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Old 04-05-2006, 12:35 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Cool. If you need any further clarifications just let me know.

-Jake
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Old 04-05-2006, 09:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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There is Also the SniperII that is under cocking with a side rod to the bolt but the sealing surface is not exposed as well as The Sterling which is a side cocking with a rod to the back like a Sniper. These are just variationd of what was mentioned above. The Sterling is a quasi nelson based gun meaning it uses The same parts just different order in which its fired.
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:09 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snyiper
There is Also the SniperII that is under cocking with a side rod to the bolt but the sealing surface is not exposed as well as The Sterling which is a side cocking with a rod to the back like a Sniper. These are just variationd of what was mentioned above. The Sterling is a quasi nelson based gun meaning it uses The same parts just different order in which its fired.
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Dual arms give a more rigid pump stroke which translates into a smoother overall pump stroke. The dual arms do not allow the internals to rotate or even kink ever so slightly. (even with anti kink internals)
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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The way I see it, kinking is what happens at the junction of the bolt and hammer when cocked, which would have nothing to do with how the bolt is pushed back. The dual arms supposedly stopped the bolt from twisting in the breech which would make a smoother pump stroke, although both Colins and Earons signature guns only use one pump arm, and I think they know something about pump guns (Mike gun only uses one arm (rod) also).

I'm guessing if you have a lower quality gun, then using dual arms to keep the bolt centered might help, but with ghosts, comps and phantoms it doesn't do much except add weight. All these guns have anti-kink bolt/hammers so the forward pump stroke is just as nice as the backward pump stroke, as compared to a stock 007 where the backward is okay, but the pull forward is hard because the bolt and hammer are kinking a little, causing friction on the breech (or maybe the powertube depending on the tolerances, this is worse, as it can break powertubes!)
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Old 04-05-2006, 04:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Colin had made comments about why the Ghosts never had dual arms. Basically they arent needed with a gun that utilizes the proper tolerances and anti-kink. My 007 with very nice internals(bolt action) was as silky as a sterling.

Though it would seem to me that dual arms could relieve possible drag on one side of the internals...it would even the pressure out.

-Jake
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Old 04-05-2006, 10:16 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Ok B I give why not a nelson?
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Old 04-05-2006, 10:34 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Quote:
Ok B I give why not a nelson?
Wasn't the Sniper and Sterling design based more off the Sheridan design then the Nelson?
Or am I wrong?
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