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Old 12-09-2006, 03:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by FeedTheDogg View Post
My question is why is an automag a high end mechanical semi (according to the catagories on pbreview.com....I mean, aren't automags simple semi autos as well? I LOVE MAGS! got a classic and an RT with lv 10

I think it had more to do with the base cost of the marker than anything else for pbreview.

I know that I continuously have kids with a couple of hundred dollars more expensive guns say "NICE gun" when I pull my Mags out. If that isn't high-end, I don't know what is.
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Old 12-09-2006, 06:15 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Mags have a look and feel about them that rings of mechanical things in sci-fi movies, right down to the little *PING* you hear once it's gassed up. I'm completely nuts for the polished nickel-plated look, especially with the oversized steel braid running to the valve. The kids love the look of my Mag too.

Then I pass it to them to feel the weight. It's a classic mag body with a steel grip and valve, and a steel tank out the back.

One kid asked me if it's how I got so big.
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Old 12-09-2006, 07:09 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Any catigorisation(sp) based on anything other than quality is fubar IMHO.
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Old 12-09-2006, 10:52 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cunha View Post
There are some good blowbacks today. Sentinels, and Vector-m1's / Viper m1's are both relatively recent takes on the old design, and work well.
Vipers have been around for 10 years. Bill Mills gave me one way back in the spring of 1996, and I ended up selling it at the '96 "World Record Game" since I ran out of money...
And it was/is a nice gun. I suppose its unfair for me to say "They don't make them like they used too". And I don't just mean Z-1s, but also guns like Alleycats, and F2s were made in a different time.

Back when guns came with METAL triggers, and had complex machine work that served a purpose. "Bling" was non existent.
Today, if a part can be made plastic, its plastic. Othewise, if it can be made pot-metal, then its pot-metal.
Then, as a last resort, its made from overseas casting done in CHina, with terrible tolerances

Look at the ACI F4 compared to the F2. The F2 has some fancy machine work for the gasline, and a well machined trigger frame. the F4 is just a glorified spyder.

Bah.. or I might just be getting old. I've already started using the "WHen I was your age" crap with my kids. they roll there eyes.

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These days, automags are so so so cheap and most people get HPA anyways, id practically reccomend an automag to most newbies.
I've never liked Mags, but thats mostly just because I've seen them cause so much misery in the pre-HPA days. IMO, AGD never really recovered from those days, which is a shame, since they run pretty awesome of HPA.

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Old 12-09-2006, 11:34 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Lovecraft
I've never liked Mags, but thats mostly just because I've seen them cause so much misery in the pre-HPA days. IMO, AGD never really recovered from those days, which is a shame, since they run pretty awesome of HPA.

AGD never recovered from the pre-HPA days

Weren't the pre-HPA days the golden age of the Automag? Wasn't it the gun to have?
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Old 12-10-2006, 07:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rudisill View Post
AGD never recovered from the pre-HPA days

Weren't the pre-HPA days the golden age of the Automag? Wasn't it the gun to have?
From what I have seen that depended on where you lived. Heck, the same seems to be true now though as well.

I loved my Mag and it always worked flawlessly. It ripped paint just as fast as the electros on the fields I played at, and I loved the snappy feel of the trigger. But with that said, I didn’t like the fact that I could not shoot as deep into my tank as I wanted (or feel I should have been able to) and it had to be run on HPA. I also had some “association” issues that I simply didn’t want to think about every time I looked at my Mag. So I got rid of it.

And what is it being replaced by? A Tippmann.
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Everything said so far is true of blowbacks and there is one more thing that I would like to add. They are quite reliable and simple. This makes them appealling to novice players, and field owners. They can be half full of crud, leaking paint, dirt, and have the barrel jammed full of balls and they will still cycle. This is one reason I have great admiration for Tippmann markers. They may not be the prettiest, most accurate, or have the highest rate of fire, but they will work when everything else has thrown in the towel.
Agreed. And they work just fine for their intended purpose. Not to mention that many of the issues can be overcome to a very reasonable extent by one modification or “upgrade” or another from the bone stock versions.

Blowbacks are the "hammer" in the tool bag.

Last edited by shartley; 12-10-2006 at 07:24 AM.
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Old 12-10-2006, 12:29 PM   #17 (permalink)
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So it is our mission to build the First "High end" Blowback
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Old 12-10-2006, 01:01 PM   #18 (permalink)
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So it is our mission to build the First "High end" Blowback
We could have Doc build it! (http://www.vm68.com/stuff/expensive.html)

Or mabe not...

Howabout we just diamond-stud a VM68? Nah, they'd probably all pop off after 6 or 7 cycles...

Any other ideas?

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Old 12-10-2006, 01:26 PM   #19 (permalink)
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It's funny but I've been wanting to make a post like this too for a while. Now granted so far I've only played with pumps or blowbacks but I find that the Piranhas I've used are just fine and push paint nicely and without any excessive kick. I found that the Custom 98, that everyone seems to say is THE woodsball gun to have, was no better at kick than my basic R6.

I also think there's a lot to be said for fine tuning the blowback to create a gun that cycles fine but reduces the kick to an easily dealt with minimum. That's one area that not many seem to have tried to work in.

I know that on one of my Piranhas I lightened the hammer a bit and the next step is a lighter delrin bolt. I've got it running on about 250 psi and it "sounds" like it's pumping ehough air during dry firings to hit the right velocity. Final report is waiting on actual chrono testing. But I think the biggest issue is that most blowbacks are designed with a heavy hand knowing that if they don't try to mess with it then it'll work. But with a little messing around I think there's some good playing to be hand with them and they area also compact and light in most cases.

.... or maybe I just like the underdogs....
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Old 12-10-2006, 02:56 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I don't think that there's a paintball gun for sale today that has more kick than an "easily dealt with minimum." But I'll agree that modern blowbacks can be refined.
However, rifining a blowback starts to negate their main positive, reliabilty. When you increase the tolerence and tune for efficieny, you rely more on the perfectly smooth surfaces of the internals and o-rings. Tippmanns kick and guzzle gas because they're disigned to run the same whether they're clean and oiled or caked with mud. THIS is why tippy's are considered the standard for woodsball by many.And also why they're the #1 rentals of all time.
Conversly, consider a MegaZ. One of the few truly high-end blowbacks, it was tuned for efficiency on liquid. But once the parts start to wear, fps becomes a problem. Swap a Z1 or Rental Z valve in for the high-pro MegaZ valve and your back to good. But you lose the efficiency.

All that being said, Ive gotten:
700+shots off a 12oz siphon on a 13 year old Z1 with a Mega Z valve at 290fps+/-5(60ishFAmbientTemp)
850+shots off a 16ozanti-siphon on a brand new ProCarbine w/expansion chamber and direct stab(600+psi) at 284fps +/_0(hard to believe but at emr viper this summer it fire 284 every time I chronoed it, 85 ambient temp)
800+shots off 16oz siphon on Mega Z with Z1 winter valve at 275+/- 3 (at 85*F,same emr viper as above)

Thes aren't scientific studies, obviously. They're just individual instances that stood out in my mind. I'm sure my average consistency's and shots per tank are a bit lower than those. But I still think those numbers are pretty good. Consistency translates to accuracy, right?And none of these guns are bps machines either, though the MegaZ stands above most mechanical blowbacks in that dept. And they shoot plenty fast for me.
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