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Old 01-10-2007, 01:13 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Montneel aficionados and CO2 experts; come hither!

So tell me, am I nuts?



I recentley aquired this one through egay. It started out stock, but then I got bored and attacked it with my parts bins and tool drawer. Of course, THEN I found www.montneel.com and found out that I should have been looking into siphon tanks while I was modifying my Kapp drop to work with my Taso lonestar mount... I have been reading all I can on www.montneel.com about these interesting markers. I've found out several interesting points including the jazz about the options I have with valves.

So for one thing, by running a standard bottle, it should work, but I may find myself not getting any fps readings higher then 215. But then, apparentley the valve that came with the Z-R is similar to the summer valve, which is "Designed for liquid, but can also run gas, (though efficiency is poor)."

So I ask ye experts;

Should I really invest in a siphon tube modification?
Should I be fine with just a stock bottle?
Is the expantion chamber just decorative?
What happens to liquid CO2 when you run it through an expantion chamber?
What happens to liquid CO2 when you run it through stainless steel lines?
Am I safe running a 16oz siphon tank on a bottom line (as pictured)?
Is there anything else I should know or worry about?
Am I better off taking all that junk off and putting it on one of my VM68's?

Thanks, and I hope to get a lot of help on this one!

III
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Old 01-10-2007, 02:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Expantion chambers are not just decorative, they allow the co2 room to expand, and turn into gas form from its liquid form.

If your planning on running a siphon tube, remove the expantion chamber.

Co2 in stainless lines will maybe expand a little bit, but you should be just fine. If you want maximum liquid action, you MAY want to swap it out for microline but i dont think its neccesary.

Run the gun without th X chamber and the setup you have, see how it shoots on the liquidesque brew youl get from a normal non anti siphon non siphon tank.

If it works well than your good to go. Even try with the X chamber and see how it runs on all liquid, maybe that would work?

But I think your best off running a strait how to the valve, with a siphon tank.
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Old 01-10-2007, 03:13 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cunha View Post
Expantion chambers are not just decorative, they allow the co2 room to expand, and turn into gas form from its liquid form.

If your planning on running a siphon tube, remove the expantion chamber.

Co2 in stainless lines will maybe expand a little bit, but you should be just fine. If you want maximum liquid action, you MAY want to swap it out for microline but i dont think its neccesary.

Run the gun without th X chamber and the setup you have, see how it shoots on the liquidesque brew youl get from a normal non anti siphon non siphon tank.

If it works well than your good to go. Even try with the X chamber and see how it runs on all liquid, maybe that would work?

But I think your best off running a strait how to the valve, with a siphon tank.

I know that expantion chambers aren't decorative; I also know that one of the reasons to run one is to GET RID of liquid co2. But my dilemma is will it work with this gun/valve? I may just try it with the line going straight from the tank to the asa on the marker.


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Old 01-10-2007, 03:23 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Well...you asked if the expantion chamber was just decorative so I answered, sorry about that.

You wont ruin the gun by trying it setup that way.

But if it doesnt work well, you know that all you need to do is set it up to get more liquid to the valve...IE remove the expantion chamber and hose the tank right to the valve.

Looks like a nice shooter.
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Old 01-10-2007, 07:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Siphon tubes cost about the same as anti-siphons to make, and install.
If you have a spare co2 tank, its pretty trivial to throw one in.

If you only have 1 co2 tank, then it might be worth getting another for the siphon. SIphons are great, on SOME guns. If you have a gun with a solenoid valve, well, you don't want to mix them up!

As it is set up, with a siphon, it would still work but would probobly take a good 30-40 shots to flood the valve. You could still leave the EC there if you wanted a grip, but them by pass it by running a line straight from the tank to the back ASA.

Remember- With the siphon, you will never had shootdown, or spikes, so there is no need for silly things like E/Cs, Regs, or all that nonsense.

Nick
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Old 01-10-2007, 08:48 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I wouldn't bother with a non-siphon tank on a montneel. If you want to run gas, you'll need a monster mainspring, and you'll still have shootdown problems. Get a siphon tank.Get rid of the exchamber, the less room for expansion the better. Your best bet is the shortest route possible between the tank and the valve, though a bottomline isn't a problem, you'll just need a few extra clearing shots to flood the valve.

Get a 20oz siphon, and run the line directly from the bottomline to the rear asa.
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Old 01-10-2007, 08:59 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Also, are you sure that you have a rental valve? All 5 of the rental z's that have come through my hands have had W valves. Is there a letter on the front face of the valve or not? If its a W then you'll need liquid.
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Old 01-10-2007, 10:48 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Thats a good point.
My website said that they came with summer valves because MINE came that way. Since then, seems most had come with the winter valve, so I think what valve they came with depended on what the field specifically requested.

Regardless, you still want to try and get a siphon tank. Not only does it make the gun work wonders, you also get:
1- A speech from the Fill-Tech who will tell you your tank is broken, and there is no such thing as a siphon.
2- A speech from the chrono-ref who will tell you your gun is broken because it is not supposed to shoot snow like that
3- A speech from the "expert players" who tell you your gun is going to explode, and to stay away from them.

All the while you get the cool feeling that you are using some secret lost technology.

Anyway, I saw on Ebay that AGNH is selling off there old siphon tanks that they used for rentals for a couple dollars. They are 9oz, so "probobly" exempt from hydro. You could try and bribe Murph to buy one for you, and ship it too you.

My RentalZ was setup similar. I have a gas-thru setup as a vertical grip only.

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Old 01-10-2007, 10:51 AM   #9 (permalink)
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That is if AG is still AG come springtime. I live within bicylcing distance of the field. And yes, they're 9 oz chromolly tanks, which gives 'em a 15 year hydro-free lifespan. They were made in 96 so You'll be good till 2011.
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Old 01-10-2007, 11:23 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I remember you said something about the rumor that Canobie was buying AGNH?

Would not be surprised. To me, Cynthia never seemed like she liked paintball. I travelled the east coast playing with Tom, but I'd never even seen Cynthia TOUCH a paintgun.

The field hasnt changed much since I left it 10 years ago. Despite that, it still one of the best woodsball fields/shops in the New England area. So, I wish them all the best.

Anyway, I remember she had a MOUNTAIN of 9oz siphons.
I bought one for $5 with a free fill last year. I would guess the ones on Ebay are empty though...

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