having massive problems with at-85 and at-16 PLEASE HELP ME

thehebrewhammer137 · 03-19-2008, 09:36 PM

ok, so iv got lots of problems, and a few of them have to do with my ats markers, which although i have proven myself worthy at repairing pb guns, i cannot figure out how to fix these two stuburn markers. The at-85 will not respond t all what so ever, when gassed up, nothing happens, and yes iv tryed everything my manual says to, so its obiously someting more complicated. My at-16 will gass up and the bolt cocks, but after about 2 shots the gun makes that, dare i saay it, "fart" and the only way to stop it is hit the reset button, which just puts it right back where it started, and the process repeats itself. Also, the at-16 is litterally tearing apart guide plates, one after another
someone please help me!
thanks so much guys

LoudThunder · 03-20-2008, 01:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehebrewhammer137

ok, so iv got lots of problems, and a few of them have to do with my ats markers, which although i have proven myself worthy at repairing pb guns, i cannot figure out how to fix these two stuburn markers. The at-85 will not respond t all what so ever, when gassed up, nothing happens, and yes iv tryed everything my manual says to, so its obiously someting more complicated. My at-16 will gass up and the bolt cocks, but after about 2 shots the gun makes that, dare i saay it, "fart" and the only way to stop it is hit the reset button, which just puts it right back where it started, and the process repeats itself. Also, the at-16 is litterally tearing apart guide plates, one after another
someone please help me!
thanks so much guys

Lets start with the easy stuff first.
Have you check the reg? there should be a line on it (scribed into the disk) and that line should point towards the barrel. The disk should also be at about flush with the Rear Reciever body.

Second when you install your guide plates, is the marker gassed up and although way forward?

Gumby · 03-20-2008, 09:21 AM

First place that I would look at on the AT85 would be the regulator. If nothing is happening that means no air is going past it. I know you said you went through the manual but try again. Make sure the regulator is correctly assembled. Make sure the poppet is in spring first and that the main regulator spring has not been crushed. Now chances are the piston is not moving when you air it up, either it's getting stuck or the spring just isn't pushing it hard enough to open the air. Start with the cap screw 1/2 turn counter-clockwise from the 12 o'clock position. Newer guns have the reg screw just below flush. Now connect the air and slowly turn the reg screw clockwise. You can go as far as 1/2 turn past the 12 o'clock mark. If the piston moves you'll hear the gun pop and everything should be fine. If this doesn't work then you either have a crushed reg spring or the problem is deeper. Try this first and post if it doesn't work.

The AT16 does sound like there is a problem with the cog/pull interface. First thing I would do would be to take the cog out and inspect the pull to insure both bosses are still connected. The older MIM parts fail and the bosses snap off, the current ones have slots across the tops and are threaded in place. After checking the condition of the cog and pull I would then check the coupling. To do this remove the housing from the receiver. The coupling is connected to the end of the piston and held in a 'neutral' position by springs above and below it. If the clips holding the springs in place have failed the coupling can shift forward and this will cause it to chew up guide plates like bubble gum. Check these and we can go from there.

thehebrewhammer137 · 03-20-2008, 10:10 PM

ok, so i checked the regulators on both guns and they seem fine, but i realized they are now doing something else:
the at-85, when gasses up makes a soft popping noise (not the "good" popping noise, its something else and it is not the gun cocking), and when the air is turned on slowly, it leaks out the barrel, so either way the trigger is still dead. i did notice that that little metal thing on the hammer that is supposed to have a spring in it, soes not have one, and the little metal circle that keeps the forward spring on the bolt arm is missing, so only the rear spring is accually pushing on the bolt arm. the thing is, these two issues were never problems before, and the gun used to function with these problems. sorry for the bad terms=/

OK, now the at-16

When gassed up, it performs perfectly, untill you fire a shot. once the trigger is pulled, you hear the shot but then air starts rushing out of the little exaust hole in the rear of the gun, and the trigger goes dead. if it is any help i noticed that the bolt and hammer do get reattached
thanks again

LoudThunder · 03-21-2008, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehebrewhammer137

ok, so i checked the regulators on both guns and they seem fine, but i realized they are now doing something else:
the at-85, when gasses up makes a soft popping noise (not the "good" popping noise, its something else and it is not the gun cocking), and when the air is turned on slowly, it leaks out the barrel, so either way the trigger is still dead. i did notice that that little metal thing on the hammer that is supposed to have a spring in it, soes not have one, and the little metal circle that keeps the forward spring on the bolt arm is missing, so only the rear spring is accually pushing on the bolt arm. the thing is, these two issues were never problems before, and the gun used to function with these problems. sorry for the bad terms=/

Ok this one is a little harder to interpret. On the hammer whats missing? The post or the spring.
Is it the main spring or is the striker spring?

Quote:

Originally Posted by thehebrewhammer137

OK, now the at-16

When gassed up, it performs perfectly, untill you fire a shot. once the trigger is pulled, you hear the shot but then air starts rushing out of the little exaust hole in the rear of the gun, and the trigger goes dead. if it is any help i noticed that the bolt and hammer do get reattached
thanks again

The regulator is still the issue. What kinda of tank are you using?

Gumby · 03-21-2008, 10:10 AM

Ok let's break it down gun by gun.

On the AT85:

It sounds like you are saying that the forward retainer on the piston shaft is missing and the coupling is loose. The bolt does not have an 'arm', the shaft that connects to the bolt is the piston shaft and the part that goes into the track on the right side is the coupling.

Are you using an adjustable regulator on your supply bottle? If you are slowing increasing the pressure supplied to the gun you will have air leak out the valve when the hammer is separate from the bolt. The hammer spring is pressing the hammer back and this opens the main valve. Without about 300+psi behind the valve it will be pressed open by the relaxed spring. This is also a good way to destroy guide plates. As you are slowing adding air pressure the system tries to cycle but without enough pressure to compress the hammer spring it can begin to pull the cog backwards and this pulls the cog pin down and back, as it reaches the point that the spring has more force the bolt starts to go forward again and this causes the cog pin to move up which drags or bends the leaf spring. Long explanation short, don't turn the air up as its' connected, instead connect it with at least 650+psi to start.

Since it sounds like you have the housing out look at the retainer. It is the stamped metal piece holding the piston and cycle valve in place. There should be a 'tab' that stops the forward travel of the cycle valve spool. On the older retainers this tab tended to fatigue and snap off. If it is not there your cycle valve spool can over-travel and prevent the gun from cycling.

Another thing to check with the housing out is the placement of the timing collar. This is the collar on the lower section of the piston shaft. It needs to be pressed firmly against the lower section of the 'stack' on the shaft. If this is loose it will trip the rocker before the bolt and hammer have connected and prevent the gun from firing after the first shot, sometimes it will prevent the first shot as well.

Go over those and if possible reference the owner's manual for proper part identification. It always makes things easier if we're both talking about the same whatitz or thing-a-m-bob.

thehebrewhammer137 · 03-21-2008, 07:23 PM

ok, LT, the spring im talking about is the striker spring, and im using a 4.5k dye throttle tank with a preset output of 800PSI which i confirmed is working with my speedball gun. So the tank/ input pressure cant be the problem, i also double checked with my other 4.5k tank that also runs 800PSI out.

gumby, yesss it is the coupler, and the forward spring on it is loose because the small metal ring that held it in place on the coupler is missing. Also, i only aired it up slowly after i tryed airing it up the normal way, so i dont ussually do that. and so like i said before, the gun is getting 800psi in.

Ok, so the retainer looks fine, if it the peice that looks like ___l from the side. sorry about that crude drawing, but could you explain the timing collar, it is possible that this is the problem, as i once had to remove the piston and housing from the rear assembly because one of piston heads came off the end of the coupling,

thehebrewhammer137 · 03-23-2008, 10:05 AM

any ideas of whats happening?

LoudThunder · 03-23-2008, 01:42 PM

With the striker spring broken or missing you are going to have trouble. It will stall, work intermidently etc. That needs to be replaced ASAP, this has to be done to be able to continue troubleshooting effectively.

Ill let Gumby continue with the other problem.

thehebrewhammer137 · 03-23-2008, 05:57 PM

alright either of you 2 know how to get my hands on a striker spring?

03-19-2008, 09:36 PM	#1 (permalink)
thehebrewhammer137 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: paintball field Posts: 22	having massive problems with at-85 and at-16 PLEASE HELP ME ok, so iv got lots of problems, and a few of them have to do with my ats markers, which although i have proven myself worthy at repairing pb guns, i cannot figure out how to fix these two stuburn markers. The at-85 will not respond t all what so ever, when gassed up, nothing happens, and yes iv tryed everything my manual says to, so its obiously someting more complicated. My at-16 will gass up and the bolt cocks, but after about 2 shots the gun makes that, dare i saay it, "fart" and the only way to stop it is hit the reset button, which just puts it right back where it started, and the process repeats itself. Also, the at-16 is litterally tearing apart guide plates, one after another someone please help me! thanks so much guys

03-20-2008, 09:21 AM	#3 (permalink)
Gumby MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 182	First place that I would look at on the AT85 would be the regulator. If nothing is happening that means no air is going past it. I know you said you went through the manual but try again. Make sure the regulator is correctly assembled. Make sure the poppet is in spring first and that the main regulator spring has not been crushed. Now chances are the piston is not moving when you air it up, either it's getting stuck or the spring just isn't pushing it hard enough to open the air. Start with the cap screw 1/2 turn counter-clockwise from the 12 o'clock position. Newer guns have the reg screw just below flush. Now connect the air and slowly turn the reg screw clockwise. You can go as far as 1/2 turn past the 12 o'clock mark. If the piston moves you'll hear the gun pop and everything should be fine. If this doesn't work then you either have a crushed reg spring or the problem is deeper. Try this first and post if it doesn't work. The AT16 does sound like there is a problem with the cog/pull interface. First thing I would do would be to take the cog out and inspect the pull to insure both bosses are still connected. The older MIM parts fail and the bosses snap off, the current ones have slots across the tops and are threaded in place. After checking the condition of the cog and pull I would then check the coupling. To do this remove the housing from the receiver. The coupling is connected to the end of the piston and held in a 'neutral' position by springs above and below it. If the clips holding the springs in place have failed the coupling can shift forward and this will cause it to chew up guide plates like bubble gum. Check these and we can go from there. __________________ I'm Gumby, Damnit! Damage Inc! Spring Pump Event - Best game ever

03-21-2008, 10:10 AM	#6 (permalink)
Gumby MCB Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 182	Ok let's break it down gun by gun. On the AT85: It sounds like you are saying that the forward retainer on the piston shaft is missing and the coupling is loose. The bolt does not have an 'arm', the shaft that connects to the bolt is the piston shaft and the part that goes into the track on the right side is the coupling. Are you using an adjustable regulator on your supply bottle? If you are slowing increasing the pressure supplied to the gun you will have air leak out the valve when the hammer is separate from the bolt. The hammer spring is pressing the hammer back and this opens the main valve. Without about 300+psi behind the valve it will be pressed open by the relaxed spring. This is also a good way to destroy guide plates. As you are slowing adding air pressure the system tries to cycle but without enough pressure to compress the hammer spring it can begin to pull the cog backwards and this pulls the cog pin down and back, as it reaches the point that the spring has more force the bolt starts to go forward again and this causes the cog pin to move up which drags or bends the leaf spring. Long explanation short, don't turn the air up as its' connected, instead connect it with at least 650+psi to start. Since it sounds like you have the housing out look at the retainer. It is the stamped metal piece holding the piston and cycle valve in place. There should be a 'tab' that stops the forward travel of the cycle valve spool. On the older retainers this tab tended to fatigue and snap off. If it is not there your cycle valve spool can over-travel and prevent the gun from cycling. Another thing to check with the housing out is the placement of the timing collar. This is the collar on the lower section of the piston shaft. It needs to be pressed firmly against the lower section of the 'stack' on the shaft. If this is loose it will trip the rocker before the bolt and hammer have connected and prevent the gun from firing after the first shot, sometimes it will prevent the first shot as well. Go over those and if possible reference the owner's manual for proper part identification. It always makes things easier if we're both talking about the same whatitz or thing-a-m-bob. __________________ I'm Gumby, Damnit! Damage Inc! Spring Pump Event - Best game ever

03-23-2008, 01:42 PM	#9 (permalink)
LoudThunder Rec Poster Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 45	With the striker spring broken or missing you are going to have trouble. It will stall, work intermidently etc. That needs to be replaced ASAP, this has to be done to be able to continue troubleshooting effectively. Ill let Gumby continue with the other problem. __________________ Where do you go at night when the Demons come? http://www.northerncommandpaintball.com

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03-20-2008, 10:10 PM	#4 (permalink)
thehebrewhammer137 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: paintball field Posts: 22	ok, so i checked the regulators on both guns and they seem fine, but i realized they are now doing something else: the at-85, when gasses up makes a soft popping noise (not the "good" popping noise, its something else and it is not the gun cocking), and when the air is turned on slowly, it leaks out the barrel, so either way the trigger is still dead. i did notice that that little metal thing on the hammer that is supposed to have a spring in it, soes not have one, and the little metal circle that keeps the forward spring on the bolt arm is missing, so only the rear spring is accually pushing on the bolt arm. the thing is, these two issues were never problems before, and the gun used to function with these problems. sorry for the bad terms=/ OK, now the at-16 When gassed up, it performs perfectly, untill you fire a shot. once the trigger is pulled, you hear the shot but then air starts rushing out of the little exaust hole in the rear of the gun, and the trigger goes dead. if it is any help i noticed that the bolt and hammer do get reattached thanks again

03-21-2008, 07:23 PM	#7 (permalink)
thehebrewhammer137 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: paintball field Posts: 22	ok, LT, the spring im talking about is the striker spring, and im using a 4.5k dye throttle tank with a preset output of 800PSI which i confirmed is working with my speedball gun. So the tank/ input pressure cant be the problem, i also double checked with my other 4.5k tank that also runs 800PSI out. gumby, yesss it is the coupler, and the forward spring on it is loose because the small metal ring that held it in place on the coupler is missing. Also, i only aired it up slowly after i tryed airing it up the normal way, so i dont ussually do that. and so like i said before, the gun is getting 800psi in. Ok, so the retainer looks fine, if it the peice that looks like ___l from the side. sorry about that crude drawing, but could you explain the timing collar, it is possible that this is the problem, as i once had to remove the piston and housing from the rear assembly because one of piston heads came off the end of the coupling,

03-23-2008, 10:05 AM	#8 (permalink)
thehebrewhammer137 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: paintball field Posts: 22	any ideas of whats happening?

03-23-2008, 05:57 PM	#10 (permalink)
thehebrewhammer137 Newbie Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: paintball field Posts: 22	alright either of you 2 know how to get my hands on a striker spring?