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Old 10-24-2010, 10:52 AM   #1021 (permalink)
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makes sense
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:42 AM   #1022 (permalink)
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Teflon 90duro is an adequate cup seal, certainly better than delrin or nylon. I personally prefer orings (lends to natural radiusing of the inlet and cupseal edges;easy replacement), but the use of CO2 complicates that matter somewhat.
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:26 AM   #1023 (permalink)
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Teflon 90duro is an adequate cup seal, certainly better than delrin or nylon. I personally prefer orings (lends to natural radiusing of the inlet and cupseal edges;easy replacement), but the use of CO2 complicates that matter somewhat.
Teflon stinks in cold weather too, even with HPA. It sets up hard and doesn't seal very well. I guess with a pump a small leak wouldn't be too bad, but being a Canuckian marker I would expect good cold weather performance.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:03 PM   #1024 (permalink)
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dammit of course, wasnt thinking of co2 use with the oring seal. dammit! these guns love co2 right now, I dont want to change that. now, I dont think that a properly designed teflon cupseal in hard weather should leak, our hard delrin seals never leak, the key to that is the contact surface of the valve body (there shouldnt be a flat, just a nice radius). what do you think, Ryan? one piece teflon should give us favorable performance in most conditions, and with rapid fire of co2 and cold weather, the gun would just get a little noisier. although... with that sort of thermal expansion occuring i would be concerned about the seal staying properly attached to the valve stem threads, even with red loctite.

grrrr why do valves have to be such a pain sometimes

im going to grab my quadrant manuals and make an in depth comparison on expansion and other characteristics with solid synthetic cupseals. and then look into what sort of oring materials I could easily get which might offer favorable low temp performance.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:06 PM   #1025 (permalink)
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grrrr why do valves have to be such a pain sometimes
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:49 PM   #1026 (permalink)
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Fluorosint 207 is 5 times more stable across the temperature range than Teflon, and about half as soft (still softer than delrin). and appears to cost about 20 times as much as teflon. yeouch! this is the only other solid plastic that meets the requirements for a good cupseal.

could use a teflon ring I suppose, that would be much much more suitable than most oring materials. I'll look into availability of different teflon ring seals (doesnt have to be round, could use a square ring profile too, we'll see).
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Old 10-26-2010, 08:54 PM   #1027 (permalink)
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just use a urethane oring rather than buna-n.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:03 PM   #1028 (permalink)
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dammit of course, wasnt thinking of co2 use with the oring seal. dammit! these guns love co2 right now, I dont want to change that. now,
I agree with you 100%
The cup seal you made is perfect... At least by my standars
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I dont think that a properly designed teflon cupseal in hard weather should leak, our hard delrin seals never leak, the key to that is the contact surface of the valve body (there shouldnt be a flat, just a nice radius). what do you think, Ryan? one piece teflon should give us favorable performance in most conditions, and with rapid fire of co2 and cold weather, the gun would just get a little noisier. although... with that sort of thermal expansion occuring i would be concerned about the seal staying properly attached to the valve stem threads, even with red loctite.

grrrr why do valves have to be such a pain sometimes
What do you suppose AKA uses on teir valves for a seal?
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:30 PM   #1029 (permalink)
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you know, I have no idea what the AKA cupseals are actually made of. it's a fairly hard plastic though, and I don't think it would offer an advantage for quieting down the guns. I have always wondered though, if cutting away the cupseal in that star-like configuration would improve performance, will have to try it out some time.

Leafy, teflon has a much wider temperature range than urethane and is even more stable. I could definitely try both (ahhh the advantages of using a swappable synthetic ring seal )
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:51 PM   #1030 (permalink)
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I've dispatched some emails for quotes on availability for -011 size square rings in teflon or urethane, should be able to find out soon if these will work. fitted into a stainless seat screwed onto valve stem should provide an outstanding valve function
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