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Old 10-09-2013, 10:00 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Kaos D doing some weird stuff.

So, the last couple times i've tried to use my bro's gun (he had serious shoulder surgery this summer so he's not touching ANY sport for a good long while) it acts up.

It will dry fire just fine. But once i've got paint in the chamber it will do this weird bolt comes about 90% of the way back and the valve is stuck open thing. The valve venting stops when i pull the bolt the final 10% of the way back to catch the seer. (bolt is also far enough back to allow the paint to fall in, and subsequently get blown straight down barrel until there is no more paint)

I've tried cleaning, lubing, replacing hammer o'ring, but every time i test it, it keeps doing this. (so far it has only ever acted up if fired when there is a ball in the chamber)

Any ideas? (might try to do a vid of this at some point this week)

---Edit, replicating my last post with video of this happening on field---
After having the guy at the Tech PB booth at the Sherwood game look at it and adjust the reg a couple of times it still went haywire, but that weekend i was able to catch it on video each time (i think it esploded 5 seperate times in all). The TechPB guy was miffed when he saw this happen while we were checking it at chrono station.

Here is the clearest view i had (that i've watched so far)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jG3kBso2ISI

This is happening with the bolt/striker already back 'behind' the sear. It just makes no sense.

At this point, with stock barrel and paint that was occasionally breaking in a .689 barrel, we are at the end of where i feel comfortable adjusting with the rear screw. Without adjusting the reg (which seems to cause this issue) my only next option seems to be using different drive springs to achieve higher velocity with smaller paint.

Last edited by panhead4411; 05-13-2014 at 11:55 AM.
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Old 10-11-2013, 07:45 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by panhead4411 View Post
bolt is also far enough back to allow the paint to fall in, and subsequently get blown straight down barrel until there is no more paint
ERMERGERD! full auto Azodin!

Just kidding, the leak down the barrel is probably your Cup-seal.
make sure your valve retaining screw is in and tightened.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:27 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bob_wuzza View Post
ERMERGERD! full auto Azodin!

Just kidding, the leak down the barrel is probably your Cup-seal.
make sure your valve retaining screw is in and tightened.
Yeah, it literally just blows every ball that will fall straight down the barrel since the bolt is 90% of the way back...(and they were actually going a fair distance too)

Also, as to the 'cup seal' theory. If it is, then why does it stop the moment i pull the hammer the remaining 10% and it locks on the sear?

After some more testing with it yesterday, and it was got much more prevalent the more i turned the reg up. (and went away when i turned it down) Not exactly sure how higher reg pressure gets the valve stuck open, but that does see to be the case.

Sucks because if the paint is too small, and my rear screw is as far as i can take it, the only other velocity point is the reg, and apparently now i can't turn the reg up...so i'm just stuck shooting low. (barrel kits aren't adjusting to dwindling paint sizes quick enough, had lots of stuff role straight through my .675 sizers)
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Old 10-14-2013, 09:02 PM   #4 (permalink)
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It almost sounds like your valve is backwards or the spring is missing/ wrong size.. Check that and check that the valve retaining screw is there.
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Old 10-15-2013, 01:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
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If valve was backwards it would not function at all and would constantly be leaking down barrel. That is not the case as it was only acting up while there was a ball in the chamber, but cycled just fine while dry firing, how would that be the trouble?

Just making sure, you are reading *this* thread, and not thinking it is a different one, yes? I'm just asking because i can't make that connection, so maybe you can help me understand how backwards valve would function 100% fine while dry firing, but then only act up on every other shot that contains a ball in the chamber, then be sealed by pulling bolt back the final 10% to actually catch on the sear. (i've done my fair share of backwards valves)

After striping/cleaning/lubing the whole thing, then testing it, the only thing that changed this behavior was adjusting the reg up/down. But the odd part for me is how does the final 10% of the bolt stroke then close it? At that point the hammer/striker is no where near the valve pin, it just makes no sense, but the instant it finishes catching on the sear, it's sealed again...
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Old 10-15-2013, 02:22 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Kaos D doing some weird stuff.

I've never installed a valve upside down, I assumed those might be the symptoms. Since I don't have access to the marker in question it's hard to diagnose.

Since it's not re-cocking only when you're feeding balls Ill assume you're using a forcefed hopper, maybe too much force is being applied to the bolt while it's on it's way back. Which leads me to believe the blowback gas isn't strong enough. So lack of pressure or seal on the striker. Why it stops 90% of the way and leaks is bizarre. But I'm going to stick to my valve spring/o-ring theory for the leak.
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Old 10-15-2013, 08:58 AM   #7 (permalink)
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No force feed hopper, its a mechanical marker that can MAYBE hit what, 9 b/s....

I also have never installed a valve 'upside down'. Though that would lead to almost no air going up to the bolt, and almost all air going toward the hammer/blowback.

Backwards is a different thing, as the cup-seal seat is a different size than the valve-pin hole on the hammer's side.

Also, it acts up when the reg is turned up...which gives it MORE gas going to both blowback and bolt (not an expert, but thats generally what i think of when shot velocity is increased) As i've stated, after a bit of testing sunday, it appears to be nothing that has been 'put back in wrong' as the thing functions perfectly so long as i don't need to turn the reg up to get velocity up to field speed.

But once i cross that 'tipping point' it starts to act up when there is a ball in the chamber...then if i push it further acts up even dry firing.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Almost sounds like a springing issue.
Are the valve spring & striker spring similar?
If they are, could they be reversed?
Is there a RVA on this marker, if not have you tried shimming?
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Old 10-25-2013, 12:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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are you using the stock bolt? or have you ever replaced it? Its impossible for the bolt to "come back" 90% of the way and stay there, lack of air pressure will make the bolt fart constantly. have you inspected your valve assembly at all? cupseal and guide could be screwed up.

Last edited by SmallTownKaos; 10-25-2013 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 10-25-2013, 04:54 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I think you guys are missing the key parts....this is NOT a "every single time i pull the trigger this happens 100%"...it is however a "when the reg is touched a bit higher and a ball is in the chamber" (if i turn the reg up even more it begins to happen even with no ball in the chamber)

And yes, smalltown, it is stopping "about 90%" of the way back. And no, cupseal/valve seem fine. Besides, how would the cupseal only MASSIVELY fail when there is a ball in the chamber, but not when 'dry firing? Riddle me that.

This is not being caused by any 'normal' issue that STBB's develop. This is not my first rodeo tech'ing STBB's. While i appreciate the thoughts, it seems you are not fully reading my descriptions of the problem, which i honestly didn't think were that vague. I'm sorry if i offend, but it seems i keep repeating the same retort...

...it would mechanically function just fine, until i touched the reg up a bit to get it above 250 (for smaller paint), then ONLY when there was a ball in the chamber would it 'get stuck' (NOT FART, "get stuck" is the best description, that is why it was used). If i pushed the reg higher again it started to act up even while dry firing (again, not a 'leak down the barrel', a full out "valve is stuck OPEN", but only when reg is turned up past a certain point)
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