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Old 07-29-2013, 09:10 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Nightmare Info & Tech Thread

The Nightmare Info & Tech Thread

Since there was no thread pertaining to nightmare help, info and general mumbo-jumbo on these fine markers, there now is.

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First, a little history on this marker. They were produced around the mid to late 1980's (Starting at the 87~ mark) in Mississauga Ontario. Their actual address (which was listed on the brass eagle nightmare adds) is 7050 Bramalea road, unit 19, Mississauga, Ontario L5S-1T1, which I believe is now a law or real estate office

Types of Nightmares

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There were many types of nightmares produced, the first were made out of brass, while the later models were made of aluminum extrusions. The brass models are often sought after by collectors because of their rarity. All nightmares are of a uni-body design and are .68 cal. The barrel is built into the marker and is not removable. The Nightmare grip frame is in fact the same frame used in many Crosman airguns. Because of this, they are compatible with Crosman stocks. In total, there were 5 different types of Nightmares produced; the LB, LB Comp, Ninja, SB and SB Comp.

LB

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The LB (Long Barrel) was introduced in 1988. Distinguishing features: long pump handle (A short knurled pump handle in the case of the brass models), stock class only. Note, some Aluminum LB's were sold or later fitted with SB ribbed pump handles.

LB Comp

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The LB Comp was introduced shortly after in 1989. Distinguishing features: 12 quick changer cut-out, Direct feed elbow.

Ninja

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The Ninja Nightmare was also introduced in 1988, and was only available in a long barreled version. It came standard with a hopper and CA setup (dummy 12gr with a under hanging tank on stock). Distinguishing features: A short knurled pump handle, Direct feed elbow with a 45 degree sweep to the rear, 12gr cut-out, dummy 12gr and CA setup. It is shown here with a stick feed and a cram n jam.

SB

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The SB (Short Barrel) was introduced earlier in 1987, predating the LB models by a year. There are only two SB variants (not including brass models). Distinguishing features: Short barrel and pump handle (knurled in the case of the brass models and ribbed for the latter),

SB Comp

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The SB Comp was introduced a year later than the SB in 1988. Distinguishing features: Direct feed elbow, 12 gr cut-out and sometimes a BBA (Back Bottle Air) adapter.

Nightmare function

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Pictured: A basic layout of the internals
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Pictured: Nightmare lower-tube internals. From left to right: Bolt (with o-ring), Bolt spring, Valve body (with o-rings), Valve internal o-ring, Valve washer, Top to bottom: Valve spring, Valve stem, Valve cap and Cup seal, Hammer, Mainspring and End cap
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Pictured here are the valve internals. From left to right: Valve body (with o-rings), Internal valve o-ring, Valve washer, Valve spring, Valve stem, Original Valve cup seal and Brass valve cap

The Nightmare design is unique. It is a stacked tube marker, with the feed tube and pierce pin assembly in the top tube and the valve train, bolt and barrel in the lower tube. Some say the valve is of a "hybrid" design, a mix between nelson and Sheridan valves. The Nightmare valve can also be found in other markers. It is present in Stingrays, Cobra's, Mirages, Mega-Z's, Titans and in a modified form, Crosman 357's.

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Another image of the internals, from Vintage Rex

Tech

Nightmares are renown for being difficult to repair if they are leaking. This is mostly due to old dry seals and torn o-rings.

If your nightmare works, don't fix it. Removing the pierce pin assembly or the valve will cause the old o-rings to crumble.

There, you have been warned. Now, this can be fixed a few different ways. First, all the seals (except the brass nut seal and the pierce pin face seal) can be found at a hardware store. The o-ring sizes are as follows:

Valve body exterior: #113
Pierce pin assembly exterior: #112

Front valve seal: #009
Bolt: #111

Sizes and part numbers, originating from Maj Tom:

Brass nut seal (cup seal): This is a proprietary seal, in other words, you need to have one made based on an original or find an original. The dimensions are .4675 OD x .23 ID x .0675.

Pierce pin face seal: Again a proprietary seal, you will need a replacement (possibly custom made) or an original. The dimensions are .5060 OD x .176 ID x .1365 Tapered outer edge.

Replacement are available here: Crosman End seal 357/CO2 guns. Crosman, Benjamin, Sheridan.

Bolt spring -1692K36
Thumb Screw -92421A642

The thumb screws are A5 metric threads. In theory, you should be able to find a suitable replacement in a well stocked building center etc.

Maj Tom's nightmare disassembly videos:

Brass Eagle Nightmare Disassembly Part 1 - YouTube

Brass Eagle Nightmare Disassembly Part 2 - YouTube

These videos contain instructions on disassembling your nightmare as well as parts lists.

One more thing to consider is O-ring material and durometer. This may seem a little overboard, but it is important. You need o-rings that are resistant to abrasion, cold and oil. Most important is the oil and abrasion resistance.

When sliding in the valve and pierce pin assembly's, the o-rings must not be cut by the set screw holes and must be resistant to the oil being used to lubricate the marker. O-ring come in many different compounds and durometers. I have found o-rings composed of Buna-N to be effective. They are resistant to many different types of oils and are available in different temperature ranges and durometers. They are also commonly available. Other compounds that will work are Viton, Urethane, PTFE, Kalrez and Aflas. All are resistant to synthetic lubricants and abrasion. Although, a few of these compounds don't come cheap.

You also need the keep in mind their durometer rating. This is the measure of how hard and stretch resistant the compound is. This is measured using the shore A scale. Compounds are rated from 30 to 95 points based on guess what, their hardness.

70 shore A is the standard o-ring durometer. O-rings higher than 70d may need to be used depending on the state of your nightmare and whether it has been honed or not.

For more information on o-ring durometer, I refer you to this page:

What is Rubber Hardness?

Note: You are looking for AS568 o-rings.

The brass nut seal can be a little trickier to find. You can have it custom made or perhaps find a nightmare seal kit. Crosman 357 rebuild kits apparently work as well.

You can also use brass shim stock to slide in the valve. This eliminates the shredding of o-rings on sharp set screw holes. To do so, wrap your valve in a "sleeve" of shim stock. Make sure that any overhang is towards the end of the valve. You want to able to pull it out once the valve is inserted. use a dowel to push in the valve and feed the shim stock in along with it. When the set screw holes line up, keep the valve in place using the dowel and slide the shim stock out the end.

Make sure to purchase shim stock larger than .001". I didn't and mine ended up tearing as a result. Brass foil inside you marker is very frustrating.

You can also use a flex hone to remove the sharp edges of the holes. You will also need a lubricant to keep the hone from overheating. For those of you unfamiliar with flex hones and how to use them, this page will help:

Flex Hone Instructions

O-rings and hones are available online from McMaster here: McMaster-Carr

For more information these are good pages to read:

VintageRex.com | Brass Eagle

This thread is a work in progress, so if you think there should be something added to it, please let me know!
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Dye says that they're going to make a 'Faultline Broomstick' soon, so wait for that, then you'll never be outshoot, unless the other guy has a full-auto ramping Boo-Ya frame on there Spider and a Dye Broomstick, then your screwed, you mite as well play Airsoft.

Last edited by Spiffy; 08-20-2015 at 01:34 PM. Reason: Information update
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Old 07-29-2013, 09:37 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Thanks for the info! :-)
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:14 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:18 AM   #4 (permalink)
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No prob. Will be adding more shortly.
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Dye says that they're going to make a 'Faultline Broomstick' soon, so wait for that, then you'll never be outshoot, unless the other guy has a full-auto ramping Boo-Ya frame on there Spider and a Dye Broomstick, then your screwed, you mite as well play Airsoft.
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Old 07-29-2013, 10:33 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Fantastic. As a long time user of the LB, it's good to see a compendium of info.

I'd like to know when they went from brass bodies to aluminum though.

There were also several variants of pump arms on them, it seems like no 2 are alike!
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Velcor is within all of us, you need not go looking for him. He sayeth, "wherever two or more of you are gathered, there shall I be." He is my solid bunker for me to hide behind from the incoming fire of mine enemies, He is the functioning regulator which keepeth my shots consistent, and He is my keen eye guiding my fire towards my hidden enemies. Yea, whosoever shall believeth in Him shall be guided by His right hand towards the flag, and whosoever denieth Him shall reside for all eternity in the Deadbox of Life.
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Old 07-30-2013, 06:53 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Well thank you! The switch from brass to aluminum made me curious too. I assume that the switch was made within the first year. The earliest add scans I can find with aluminum lb's is 1988. It seems that when the comps were introduced, most of the nightmare line made the switch to ribbed pump handles and aluminum bodies.
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Originally Posted by THE-SHOOTIST View Post
Dye says that they're going to make a 'Faultline Broomstick' soon, so wait for that, then you'll never be outshoot, unless the other guy has a full-auto ramping Boo-Ya frame on there Spider and a Dye Broomstick, then your screwed, you mite as well play Airsoft.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spiffy View Post
Well thank you! The switch from brass to aluminum made me curious too. I assume that the switch was made within the first year. The earliest add scans I can find with aluminum lb's is 1988. It seems that when the comps were introduced, most of the nightmare line made the switch to ribbed pump handles and aluminum bodies.
I once had an LB that was aluminum, with a feed port jb welded over... and it had a nice knurled pump arm!
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Originally Posted by Usagi Tetsu
Velcor is within all of us, you need not go looking for him. He sayeth, "wherever two or more of you are gathered, there shall I be." He is my solid bunker for me to hide behind from the incoming fire of mine enemies, He is the functioning regulator which keepeth my shots consistent, and He is my keen eye guiding my fire towards my hidden enemies. Yea, whosoever shall believeth in Him shall be guided by His right hand towards the flag, and whosoever denieth Him shall reside for all eternity in the Deadbox of Life.
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Old 08-08-2013, 04:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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O-ring sizes! That is fantastic... and I wish this had been here before I sold mine
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:10 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Lol Franken marker perhaps?
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Originally Posted by THE-SHOOTIST View Post
Dye says that they're going to make a 'Faultline Broomstick' soon, so wait for that, then you'll never be outshoot, unless the other guy has a full-auto ramping Boo-Ya frame on there Spider and a Dye Broomstick, then your screwed, you mite as well play Airsoft.
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Old 08-08-2013, 05:13 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Sorry to hear that! You could always buy another one...
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Dye says that they're going to make a 'Faultline Broomstick' soon, so wait for that, then you'll never be outshoot, unless the other guy has a full-auto ramping Boo-Ya frame on there Spider and a Dye Broomstick, then your screwed, you mite as well play Airsoft.
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