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Old 01-30-2012, 01:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Efficiency Upgrade Questions

Hey everyone, I'll get right to it. I plan to do these upgrades to my Phantom:

ASP ported tpc
Lapco #6 powertube (cut down)
Lapco Ghost Hammer and Bolt

I already have a dropout valve and a freak bored barrel on the way.

As for the dropout, I talked to super_stanchy and he said it would help to put some #10 washers in the valve chamber. Gives the valve spring more pressure. Anybody else have experience with this? Just looking for more info.

Also, what springs should I be using? I live in Texas, so even now the weather is easily in the 60's on normal days. I was thinking the blue main with the #10 washer valve spring would be best. But I'm not sure.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 01-30-2012, 01:55 PM   #2 (permalink)
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teflon the feedblock screw hole, and trifluted hammer will reduce the time the valve is open as well

you should have a very efficient setup with all of that
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Old 01-30-2012, 03:39 PM   #3 (permalink)
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BassDude, I'm located in ATX, so I have some pretty similar testing conditions. I found that washers were not necessary, but I did not test exhaustively, nor did I push my testing for efficiency. I have a a lapco #6 that I cut down for my phantom. My honest opinion: they are a waste of money. IMHO it is unnecessary b/c you can easily achieve the same results by modifying your stock powertube. Enlarge the three holes at the rear of the power tube with a grinder/drill/rotary tool and a conical shaped bur. Using sandpaper, dowels and good ol' elbow grease you can enlarge the bore of the stock p/t. Now, enlarging the holes at the rear of the p/t does pose a risk: you are removing material from the most fragile part of the p/t. If you are heavy on the A/T the slightly more robust lapco p/t may be the way to go. But, I would say mod your stock p/t and until you break it (other people have encountered this problem, not I) you won't need to wonder if the lapco is really better. The difference in tolerances between the stock and lapco p/t is in the thousands range (+/- 0.001).

How long is the barrel you plan on using? Are you looking for the most usable shots per 12gram or the most consistency from start to finish of the 12g? Not, sure that I can help you on the finer points of either of those, but there are tons of threads in the cci, redux and pump forum sections detailing the tuning of nelsons. And plenty of nelson pros around here that have written lots of good posts recently on this subject--try a search for nelson tuning. But, let me know if I can help in any way: I have two duckslides, an o/c phantom, a stock class VSC phantom, a drill press, a dremel and would be more than happy to help assist other phantom/nelson users.

I've been using stock main and stock valve springs, open face tpc, and fluted hammer and easily getting 30 to 40 usable shots from my duckslide. We don't have to work as hard to squeeze shots out of 12gs as our northern brethren.

stanchy-- not sure if I'm interpretting you correctly--but, are you saying to put some teflon tape on the feedblock screw to help prevent gas from escaping through the hole in the top of the body?... sounds good. every little bit can help.
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Old 01-30-2012, 04:52 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Legolas View Post
stanchy-- not sure if I'm interpretting you correctly--but, are you saying to put some teflon tape on the feedblock screw to help prevent gas from escaping through the hole in the top of the body?... sounds good. every little bit can help.
yup

redneck sniper showed me that one... he says it gives ya 2-3 extra shots
idk if i believe THAT much... but hey if you goin for the max... ya gotta do what ya gotta do!
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Old 01-30-2012, 06:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Used the washers before, they work. Although, now I'm using a red (hard) Maddman cocker valve spring cut down to fit

Just ordered 2 sets of Lapco #6 PTs with cupseals, I'm falling in love with 12 grams again
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Old 01-30-2012, 07:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Exdee-- you unintentionally brought up a good point--Lapco P/Ts might have some difficulty working with stock cci valve hats. IIRC, the lapco p/t and cci valve hats worked for me, but didn't seem as tight as all stock parts.

And yeah, I'd go with the madman springs over the washers. The washers achieve the desired effect, but may lead to issues with binding and over-compression of the spring.

as far as the extra two to three shots, I've never seen any plumes of co2 ejecting from the feed tube screw, but hey, I'm putting teflon on it whether its for real or all in my head...
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In the world I see - you are stalking elk through the damp canyon forests around the ruins of Rockefeller Center. You'll wear leather clothes that will last you the rest of your life. You'll climb the wrist-thick kudzu vines that wrap the Sears Tower. And when you look down, you'll see tiny figures pounding corn, laying strips of venison on the empty car pool lane of some abandoned superhighway.

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Old 01-30-2012, 10:35 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the help so far guys!

I had a Maddman Cocker Spring Kit and sold it. Shouldn't have done that I guess... Until I get one, I'll settle for the washers. I don't think it will cause unnecessary binding. Put a miniscule amount of oil between the washers, they'll spin against each other and release any tension that could develop. That's an old lesson I learned from my airsoft days.

@Legolas: Awesome! Glad to hear from a fellow TX paintballer.
Also, I plan to use an 11 inch phantom barrel bored for Freak inserts. I have heard those are the most efficient barrels for 12 gram use.
Powertubes...I don't own any of the necessary tools, but I do own a tube cutter, so I figured I'd just spend the $15 on a powertube instead of having to buy a dremel.
If the CCI cupseal fits loosely, I'll just throw some blue threadlock on. I think that'll fix the problem, if it even happens.

@ super_stanchy: The Lapco Ghost hammers are trifluted, which is the main reason I want one.
ASP Online Store: Lapco Ghost Hammer
I never would have thought of the feedblock thing. Thanks for bringing that to my attention.

@Exdee: I know, I have completely fallen in love with the whole 12 gram system. May be more expensive, but it's a heck of a lot more fun. I like having to think about when to reload my 12 gram and such.





Thanks for the help so far everyone. I have already learned alot. Looking forward to anything else someone has to say. I am still curious to get other opinions on the spring. Stock main with washer valve spring? Or could I go down to the CCI blue main, taking into account the trifluted Lapco Ghost Hammer?

EDIT: Also noticed the design of the bottom of the CCI and Lapco barrels differ. The bottom of the Lapco is different shaped, and appears longer. However, this will work in a Phantom right?

Last edited by BassDude; 01-30-2012 at 10:59 PM.
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:08 PM   #8 (permalink)
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oh btw i finished your barrel today
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