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CCI Home of the Phantom Pump Gun

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Old 05-08-2012, 08:52 PM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cirkle68 View Post
The rtr does look nice, some day I will try it. One question for you. the the vertical milling for grip on the back I think it is.. Sorry haven't looked at one lately.. is that annoying to clean? it just looks like paint etc would/could build up in there..
It hasn't been too bad. Just take a QTip and wipe it down. But I really don't get too much dirt in there.
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Old 05-09-2012, 01:25 AM   #32 (permalink)
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spymongoose: I do appreciate the info you have provided to this thread. But please do not imply that we are stupid for asking questions. Acting like a smart@ss will usually not make you more friends.

I can see that an 86frame on a CCM marker is indeed close to 86degrees, or tilted from 90 degrees as you stated. But the phantom version of the grip with the same name has no simmilarities with the outline of the real 86 grip. It looks like it will take the same kind of panels. When I googled the word cz75 you provided I found a lot of images of that handgun. But those grip panels doesn't seem to be drop in compatible with any of the 86 grips I have seen in pictures due to the corner radii on the 86 panels.

Again, if I HAD an 86 grip I would not have to ask these question. Then I would KNOW like you do. But right now I do not as you can't buy the phantom 86 grip anymore. So, I have to ask someone who DO know. That seems to be you, spymongoose.
It is kind of you to help me and the ones posting in this thread in our quest for knowledge, but could we just skip the condecending stuff and just stick to facts, please?
I am an adult, I can take some verbal and written abuse if it's done in a jokingly manner.
But you do not know me, you have no idea if I am offended or not. So to be on the safe side stick to plain facts.
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Last edited by Ghostpilot; 05-09-2012 at 03:30 AM. Reason: Grammar errors
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:51 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Sorry, you guys caught me on a bad night. Went through the thread and saw a lot of bad info, felt the need to dig in the spurs in the good cause of the truth.



That hogue grip should look familiar to anyone who had an 86 before the "slim" craze made the rounds. If you look at the top plane of the grip, intended to be level on the firearm, and then compare it to the "86*" meant for use on the phantom;



You would see some noticable similarities. One could infer that the rake (defined here as the difference from where it starts at the top and ends at the bottom, grip angle is such a loose term) is identical to the cz75 angle due to the same top portion of the grip being the same angle (in this case level).

Now for something completely different.

the CCM 86* grip frame from yesteryear, bearing the same hogue grips that we are using in this comparision. This frame has very little rake, and is almost vertical when you take the finger-grooves into consideration. Referencing the top potion of the hogue grip for comparison again, you can see that this same grip is at an angle in comparison the the first two examples. If we have established that this is indeed an 86* frame, and why is it called an 86* frame, then it would stand to reason that calling the first to examples an "86*" frame could not possibly be 86* frames.

a 45 frame aren't 45 degrees from vertical, and the jcurt 90's aren't exactly 90 degrees either, but their names stand due to popular usage. But those names aren't completely based on a misnomer either. To call the part meant for phantoms (or for any lonestar frame adapter) an 86* frame based solely on the fact that it shares grips with an 86 degree frame isnt exactly correct. Its not exactly something worth taking a stand on, but when someone says
Quote:
90 degrees(jcurt)>86 degrees>86* phantom grip>.45 grip
and implies that the phantom 86 is more vertical in angle than the 45 grip (that may or may not be true, but it is too close to make a call without some good measuring gear and some examples of both frames close at hand), then you get bad info being circulated and the next thing you know this place is just like PBN too.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:12 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spymongoose View Post
Sorry, you guys caught me on a bad night. Went through the thread and saw a lot of bad info, felt the need to dig in the spurs in the good cause of the truth.
No offence taken and apology accepted.
You provided som hard facts and the somewhat unpolished edges dented my pride a little, that's all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spymongoose View Post
...a 45 frame aren't 45 degrees from vertical, and the jcurt 90's aren't exactly 90 degrees either, but their names stand due to popular usage.
I may be wrong again, but I thought the name 45 came from simmilar handle shape shared with the .45 handguns. Some people call them 1911 grips, but that may be just reffering to the grip panel shape.

The thing with me and information regarding theese things is that I am not a gun nut at all, nor have I had any contact with real firearms either. So my knowledge of paintball grips and panels come ONLY from dealing with paintball goods. No experience of real guns at all. That's where you guys need to fill me in on the blanks.

With all those facts regarding the 86 frame on the table. Why did CCM make the phantom 86grip not 86 degrees? It's like making a bbq-fork with no sharp teeth and still call it a sharp tooth fork.
I see nothing in the lonestar type of attachment that would limit an 86 degree angle on the grip itself while seated on the phantom frame.
Can someone confirm or deny that a CZ-75 grip panel (not houge) fits an 86grip.
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Last edited by Ghostpilot; 01-09-2013 at 05:44 PM. Reason: Snorky unnecessary retaliation removed due to cease fire.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:02 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spymongoose View Post
Now for something completely different.
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/616/dsc0635xl.jpg
the CCM 86* grip frame from yesteryear, bearing the same hogue grips that we are using in this comparision. This frame has very little rake, and is almost vertical when you take the finger-grooves into consideration. Referencing the top potion of the hogue grip for comparison again, you can see that this same grip is at an angle in comparison the the first two examples. If we have established that this is indeed an 86* frame, and why is it called an 86* frame, then it would stand to reason that calling the first to examples an "86*" frame could not possibly be 86* frames.
Considering that the hogue grips for the cz75 do not fit the phantom 86* grip *PERFECTLY* I would say they are NOT identical. And, looking at the pictures I would say the cz75 is definitively swept back more than the phantom 86*.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spymongoose View Post
a 45 frame aren't 45 degrees from vertical, and the jcurt 90's aren't exactly 90 degrees either, but their names stand due to popular usage.
Right, they are .45 (caliber) not 45 degree frames. nope, if you ignore the grooves and create a straight line down the front of the jcurt, it is 90 degrees. I just looked at one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spymongoose View Post
But those names aren't completely based on a misnomer either. To call the part meant for phantoms (or for any lonestar frame adapter) an 86* frame based solely on the fact that it shares grips with an 86 degree frame isnt exactly correct. Its not exactly something worth taking a stand on, but when someone says
"90 degrees(jcurt)>86 degrees>86* phantom grip>.45 grip"
and implies that the phantom 86 is more vertical in angle than the 45 grip (that may or may not be true, but it is too close to make a call without some good measuring gear and some examples of both frames close at hand), then you get bad info being circulated and the next thing you know this place is just like PBN too.

I wrote that specifically that way because I have a jcurt 90 degree frame, a 86* phantom frame, a .45 grip and I have a miter square. I didn't imply that the phantom 86 is more vertical in angle than the .45 grip, I specifically stated that the phantom 86 is more vertical in angle than the .45 grip because I have compared the two and that's the way they are.

One day in my shop I was looking at the 86* grip and realized that 86 degrees is less than 5 degrees from 90, so the phantom 86 grip should be darn near vertical, but clearly it is not. So I took out my miter square to measure it. I can't remember exactly what angle it was but it was less than 86* and more than the angle of a .45 grip.

So, I I'll say it again, and I'll stand by it:

90 degrees(jcurt)>86 degrees(a/c ccm 86* grip)>86* phantom grip>.45 grip

And please stop comparing this thread to PBN. We all understand that as an insult around here. You came here telling me not to spread misinformation since I don't have the proper grips and measuring tools. I had them. I did the math. Now stop assuming. Spymongoose, I don't want this to turn into a flame war or an intellectual one-up-manship contest. I am more than happy to be wrong in any of the things I've said. But, lets please keep this civil.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghostpilot View Post
With all those facts regarding the 86 frame on the table. Why did CCM make the phantom 86grip not 86 degrees? It's like making a bbq-fork with no sharp teeth and still call it a sharp tooth fork.
I see nothing in the lonestar typ of attachment that would limit an 86 degree angle on the grip itself while seated on the phantom frame.
Can someone confirm or deny that a CZ-75 grip panel (not houge) fits an 86grip.
I said it in a previous post, but it may have been glossed over: CCM just called the phantom 86 degree grips that because of their similarity in appearance to the sniper 86* frame (this is my inference/belief, not hard fact from ccm). And you are absolutely right, they could have made the phantom frame 86*, but ccm must have felt that was too extreme an angle and the resulting angle of the grip we have today is a compromise between 86 degrees and the angle of the .45 frame (speculation, no hard fact)

After looking at a few pics from a google search for "CZ-75 grip panel" I would say that the cz-75 grip panels are not compatible with phantom 86* frames. How do I know? visual comparison (and I have made 8 pairs of wood phantom 86* panels): if you look at the bottom of the leading edge of the cz-75 grip panels it curves forward. The leading edge of the phantom 86* panels are a straight line without any curvature.
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Last edited by Legolas; 05-09-2012 at 09:11 AM.
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Old 05-15-2012, 05:48 PM   #36 (permalink)
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Only on mcb would I find people falling out over such trite detail, that's why I love this place. Will grips made for the AR 15 bolt straight on?
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:10 PM   #37 (permalink)
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I will try to keep this answer short

Yes, provided that there isn't some sort of thumb strap sticking above the top grip plane.
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Old 05-16-2012, 05:57 AM   #38 (permalink)
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thanks spymongoose
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