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Old 04-16-2012, 04:00 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I was shooting around 275. Getting the psi dialed in was pretty hard. It takes some really small turns to adjust. I started to run out of 12 grams for the game too haha. Alas I think I will stick to the regular CCI one. For those that would like to try the CART changer mine is for sale fairly cheap now!
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Old 04-16-2012, 02:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BassDude View Post
Well, I was using the stock (silver) main spring. I had to screw in the TPC a couple full turns. So, when I put the red spring in and had to screw the TPC in less, my reasoning was it's about the same pump stroke, with a different starting point. Does that make sense? It does in my head, but that doesn't always translate. Haha.

As for the lighter spring idea. If you lighten the hammer, you have to increase the spring tension. If there is less mass pushing against the PT, then you will need more spring power to achieve the same dwell time.

Off topic, but I also bought an FI Chrony. It's a little picky, but so far it's been a good investment I think. Not sure if a handheld radar chrono might have been the way to go. But alas, I have the Chrony now, and I'm pretty satisfied with it. I would suggest one thing though, and that is this:
F1 Chrony Upgrade
Great for low light or indoor situations, as the video title says.
Yup makes sense.

Ok, despite the relative simplicity of the Nelson valve system clearly I don't have the concept yet. I figured lighter hammer needs less spring power, I get what your saying though less mass needs greater force to open the valve.

Now if I lightened the valve spring, would that allow a a lighter main? Or is it all about the amount of air pressure in the valve body? Presumably if I regged down to 600 psi then a lighter main spring would work with a lighter hammer and valve spring?.... Am I getting this right? Is a lighter valve spring even necessary if the air pressure is turned down?

Ideally I'm looking for lighter pump stroke, smoothness is fine its the amount of lbs need to pump I'd like to reduce.

GREAT find on the cheap indoor light upgrade to a break beam chrony THANKS!
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Old 04-16-2012, 04:44 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Yup makes sense.

Ok, despite the relative simplicity of the Nelson valve system clearly I don't have the concept yet. I figured lighter hammer needs less spring power, I get what your saying though less mass needs greater force to open the valve.

Now if I lightened the valve spring, would that allow a a lighter main? Or is it all about the amount of air pressure in the valve body? Presumably if I regged down to 600 psi then a lighter main spring would work with a lighter hammer and valve spring?.... Am I getting this right? Is a lighter valve spring even necessary if the air pressure is turned down?

Ideally I'm looking for lighter pump stroke, smoothness is fine its the amount of lbs need to pump I'd like to reduce.

GREAT find on the cheap indoor light upgrade to a break beam chrony THANKS!
Could always go without a return spring or a very light return spring.

But yes you could go with a lighter hammer spring if you regged the pressure behind the PT lower so that the hammer and valve will essentially the same is if it were stock pressure. However you may need to also change the valve spring as well so the valve doesn't close to fast.

Basically your path will be like this:
Step 1: Sweetspot reg with lighter hammer spring:
Success = Fps Range achieved

Else
Step 2: replace stock valve spring with lighter spring

Sweetspot Reg with lighter valve spring
Success = Fps Range achieved

Else
Repeat Step 2.

Note: TPC should be screwed in about halfway or to where it doesn't bind plus a coupe of turns more in to allow for adjustment plus or minus. Do not adjust the tpc during these steps until your fps range is around 260 - 280.

Also decreasing pressure will also decrease efficiency decreasing the amount of shots per tank, 12g, etc...
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:19 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Thanks esparzar.

My ultimate goal is primarily shot to shot consistency even if it sacrifices efficiency (which I believe it will.) If I could do this and also lower the weight of the pump stroke I'd be pretty pleased. I will start out as you suggested with a lighter main spring and see where I get. As for a lighter valve spring anyone know where to get these? I have read about the so called yellow valve spring but I suspect this is not a CCI stock product.

In the end if the 15% reduced weight of the blue spring didn't feel any different in the pump stroke this may all be a moot point...

M
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Setting the reg at 650psi to match the Phantom's best operating pressure to start, may be the sweet spot you're all looking for in my opinion.
A blue main and a fluted hammer or stock should only vary slightly.
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Old 04-16-2012, 08:50 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelm View Post
Thanks esparzar.

My ultimate goal is primarily shot to shot consistency even if it sacrifices efficiency (which I believe it will.) If I could do this and also lower the weight of the pump stroke I'd be pretty pleased. I will start out as you suggested with a lighter main spring and see where I get. As for a lighter valve spring anyone know where to get these? I have read about the so called yellow valve spring but I suspect this is not a CCI stock product.

In the end if the 15% reduced weight of the blue spring didn't feel any different in the pump stroke this may all be a moot point...

M
there are 3 main springs that you can get from CCI. But if you wanna get a more diverse set of main springs + valve springs, Madman makes a set that is intended for autocockers that may need a slight amount of snipping to fit, but is very useful if u wanna fine tune your phantom.
The only other spring sets for nelson based guns are very old and rare and out of production.

Quote:
Originally Posted by splattttttt View Post
Setting the reg at 650psi to match the Phantom's best operating pressure to start, may be the sweet spot you're all looking for in my opinion.
A blue main and a fluted hammer or stock should only vary slightly.
What does it mean though to sweet spot a phantom? Is it the same as an autococker?
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:12 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Yeah, the sweetspot for a Phantom is the same idea as a cocker sweetspot.

At Michael, the difference in main springs will probably be negligible and not really noticed in-game. I think having a sweetspotted reg is the most important thing. Just sweetspot it and use whatever main spring you need to so you can achieve your target velocity. I wouldn't even mess with valve springs, but that's just me. We may be making it a bit too confusing.

Also, shot to shot consistency AND efficiency are kind of the goals of putting the stab on the Phantom. You should be able to achieve both.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:19 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassDude View Post
Also, shot to shot consistency AND efficiency are kind of the goals of putting the stab on the Phantom. You should be able to achieve both.
Yup, that's the two most important reasons for throwing a stabby on a phantom.

I personally do not mess with the valve spring. I'm a KISS philosophy kinda person when it comes to paintball and all my items are stock. Could I get a whole lot more efficiency squeezed out of my phantom? Sure... Is it worth my time and effort, not a whole lot.

Your mileage will vary.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:48 PM   #29 (permalink)
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PPS phantom stab. Blue main spring. Silver valve spring. 279,279,280,280 with 3.5oz vertical asa.
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Old 04-16-2012, 10:57 PM   #30 (permalink)
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With a fluted hammer or no? That definitely makes a difference.

Glad to see you getting top notch performance out of it. Mine chronos really consistent as well with 12ies. I had 277, 277, 274 over the chrono. I was definitely happy.
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