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Old 05-02-2012, 10:32 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Low Pressure and 12 Grams

I know, and I'm sorry; it's another efficiency thread. But please bear with me.

I'm looking at setting up my "perfect Phantom," and right now I'm looking at 12g's and regulators as opposed to my previous idea of using my 13/3k. I like what I'm seeing in general. If I could get a consistent 30 shots at around 250+ (tuned velocity of about 270, with 250 being my "usable") I would be a happy camper.

What I want to know is what effects low pressure will have on efficiency. It seems more air will be needed to drive the ball, and more air is not good for efficiency, but is that balanced by being able to shoot deeper into the 12ie?

Theoretical setup: VSC, 11" barrel w/ underbored iFit kit, Phantom Stabilizer, ASP open-faced TPC, fluted hammer, #6 power tube, and light springing.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:48 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I had bad experiences with the #6 PT. I wouldn't even mess with it.

Check this out:
12 gram efficiency on my Phantom

I have a similar setup and those are the results I was getting. You can get 30 shots at about 275 no problem. Personally I'd go for freak bored barrel as opposed to iFit. But that's your call.

You are actually gonna need at least a silver main spring. I actually use a red one turned in a full turn on the TPC, or thereabouts. As long as you sweetspot the reg, you are getting the best efficiency you can out of that reg, no matter the pressure. And yes, you will be able to dig deeper into the 12ie with low pressure, which is nice.
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Old 05-02-2012, 10:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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D'oooooh. That thread's only a couple posts down. I looked completely over it and it answers all my questions. Thanks, man.

Also it seems painfully obvious that light springs wouldn't work well on a lightened hammer. I swear I'm not this dumb, I'm just kind of out of it. I haven't been to sleep yet...

I feel stupid now...
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Old 05-02-2012, 06:13 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Don't feel stupid,there are so many different internal set ups out to get efficiency out of phantoms its mind boggling. The crazy thing is, I use an unregged phantom with stock internals (used to have a red spring but have switched back to stock) and a dropout changer and get 30 plus usable shots.Running FPS between 270 and 280 and using ASP detents to prevent roll outs and a modified set of Ifits in either 11" or 8" barrels seems to work for my Phantom.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:08 AM   #5 (permalink)
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^ yup. My old phantom used to get 35ish(in good weather) usable shots with stock internals, springs, dropout, freak bored barrel...
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Old 05-03-2012, 04:48 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Oh, I've got a Phantom. Dropout, get's a reliable 30+ shots and has always treated me well. I just want to try something else because that's how I do. There are some things that aren't perfect with my current setup, but I will keep it as a backup. I really want to try a regulated setup, but I don't want to tear apart my current Phantom. You know what that means? NEW PHANTOM!

Current:

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Old 05-03-2012, 05:05 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magoo View Post

What I want to know is what effects low pressure will have on efficiency. It seems more air will be needed to drive the ball, and more air is not good for efficiency, but is that balanced by being able to shoot deeper into the 12ie?
In my experience, low pressure is the ideal way to use 12 grams. There are a couple limiting factors.

1. Size and space. It's tough to integrate a reg and LP valve chamber into stockguns without making them significantly larger than the HP alternatives.

2. Valve types. Nelsons aren't made for low pressure operation. Sheridan/Sniper style valves can easily be converted to LP, and that isn't the case for Nelsons without a completely overhauled valvetrain.

The same amount of air is used to drive the paintball, whether you are using HP or LP. It's just a balance of pressure and volume. If you increase one, the other can decrease and vice versa.

Low pressure isn't just good because it lets you shoot lower into the cartridge. It's also good because it prevents the gun from wasting liquid co2, since it can't exist inside the valve chamber when you step the pressure down with a reg. You get more shots, more consistently, but unfortunately Nelsons just aren't really capable of using it to its full potential yet.
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Old 05-03-2012, 06:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I've got a Palmer's CART 12 gram changer for sale that might help... LOL Shamless plug
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Old 05-03-2012, 07:50 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Russc, that's a great post, thanks! I have a Sniper, and have toyed with the idea of a regged SC Sniper for a long time, but the Phantom really has drawn me to it. I simply don't have the resources to put towards testing, so I'm relying on other's experiences. At least for the moment.
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