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Old 06-28-2012, 06:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
CxT
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shallow pierce with dropout valve?

So my phantom runs on a dropout valve, and i'm getting really shallow pierceswith my 12gs. The gun has been used twice at this point, and I've cycled 8 9 12gs through it, with only about 3 full pierces (the rest seem to partially puncture, small slit in the cap vs. a full hole).

I'm also getting a slow leak from the pierce pin area... No matter how far I torque the 12g down. its also superbly difficult to pierce... I have to don gloves and twist as hard as possible to get pierces... Is the dropout supposed to be that hard to pierce with?

With the other pierce pin pics i've seen here, it looks the same.. So i'm not entirely sure that it Is a faulty pin...

The 12gs I'm using are either crosmans (notorious, I know...), or made in taiwan units purchased from ripple.

Any suggestions on what to look for? It honestly feels like the 12gs aren't getting far enough onto the pierce pin (as if the seal is too thick), and that its a bit dull...

*edit* android problems, sorry for the massive copied wall... also miscounted my 12gs.

Last edited by CxT; 06-28-2012 at 11:29 PM.
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Old 06-28-2012, 07:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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It sounds like a dull shallow pierce pin...if you can take a pic of the pierce pin, maybe.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:59 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I was having the same issue of the 12 grams not puncturing fully and seating up all the way against the puncture pin assembly. This resulted in either a slow leak or the entire 12 gram emptying out. The puncture pin assembly seemed fine, and I replaced the puncture seal with still no luck. Didn't seem to matter if it was Leelands or Crossmans.

What I ended up doing was unscrewing the puncture pin (have to use a flathead screwdriver) and once removed, it will have an oring right below the threads (size 010 if I remember right) and I just put another oring of the same size on top of the one that was already there, acted like a spacer basically so the puncture pin sits lower.

I screwed it back in and I had no more leaks now that 12 grams seat up all the way against the puncture seal.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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I'm not sure if this would work or not, but if you took a small piece of foam rubber and stuffed into the bottom of the bucket changer that might also help your 12g seal. Instead of shimming down the pin you would be shimming up the cartridge.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:52 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ScreamingCricket View Post
I was having the same issue of the 12 grams not puncturing fully and seating up all the way against the puncture pin assembly. This resulted in either a slow leak or the entire 12 gram emptying out. The puncture pin assembly seemed fine, and I replaced the puncture seal with still no luck. Didn't seem to matter if it was Leelands or Crossmans.

What I ended up doing was unscrewing the puncture pin (have to use a flathead screwdriver) and once removed, it will have an oring right below the threads (size 010 if I remember right) and I just put another oring of the same size on top of the one that was already there, acted like a spacer basically so the puncture pin sits lower.

I screwed it back in and I had no more leaks now that 12 grams seat up all the way against the puncture seal.
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Originally Posted by Kealda View Post
I'm not sure if this would work or not, but if you took a small piece of foam rubber and stuffed into the bottom of the bucket changer that might also help your 12g seal. Instead of shimming down the pin you would be shimming up the cartridge.
Sounds like both of you are making suggestions based on the VSC or HSC setups? I assume the bucket screws all the way in with a 12g? Thanks for the suggestions though!

The thing with the dropout is, that once you've pierced a 12g, there's at least 2 threads remaining... so in theory the 12g is seated as far as it can go on the pierce pin.

I remember reading your post about the ORing cricket, I'll have to take a look at that in any case. Only ORings I have on hand are GITD though... xD

I'll be getting pics up in a second...

Sorry if they're huge, I'm relying on the forum software to auto-shrink >_>




Third one, you can see the outline of 12gs that I've torqued down apparently hard enough to leave an imprint on the seal...

Last edited by CxT; 06-28-2012 at 10:00 PM. Reason: pics!
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:58 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Looks normal to me - I'm thinking the necks on the cartridges you are using are too big to fit within the pierce pin assembly.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I don't know about anyone else, could be the angle of the pictures, but to me it looks like your pierce pin is a bit dull and flattened out.
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Old 06-28-2012, 11:23 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ScreamingCricket View Post
I don't know about anyone else, could be the angle of the pictures, but to me it looks like your pierce pin is a bit dull and flattened out.
That would suck, the gun's been out literally twice, and as mentioned before only about 9 12gs have gone through it...

Cobyrne, the necks of all the 12gs that pierced properly and those that were partially pierced appear to be identical... No scratches or marks that I've noticed on the dropout frame near the pierce pin either.

These 5 are crosmans, but I'm getting similar results from the Ripple units. They all appear identical on the neck side...


closer shot of the partial pierce. All the partial ones vary slightly more or less than this.

Last edited by CxT; 06-28-2012 at 11:27 PM. Reason: Pics again!
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:01 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I wonder if the Taiwan 12 grams you got were too tough or you didn't sit the 12 gram in correctly and forcing it to pierce dulled down the pin. you could try some leeland 12 grams and see if you have the same issue, but you might need a new pierce pin.

Unless someone else has any ideas.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:33 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ScreamingCricket View Post
I wonder if the Taiwan 12 grams you got were too tough or you didn't sit the 12 gram in correctly and forcing it to pierce dulled down the pin. you could try some leeland 12 grams and see if you have the same issue, but you might need a new pierce pin.

Unless someone else has any ideas.
MOSA should be made in taiwan as well, so I'm partly suspecting they're MOSA units (granted I know there could be millions of manufacturers in taiwan)... However I'm not sure, but they definitely have no scent vs the nasty oily smell of crosmans.

As to improperly seating the 12gs, since I have never been able to change them mid game, all changes were made while carefully watching it (new gun and all... making sure everything works right!). My methods for now are to hold the 12g into the dropout valve, before torquing down the knob. Unfortunately that also makes me grip the feed, which causes it to wiggle loose slightly. As far as I could tell, the pierce pin has not changed visually since I received it.

Any RANDOM possibility that I got a dull pierce pin from factory?

Aside from that, I would have to wait for 12g shipments, as there's no local lelands for sale.
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